Consumer reports reliability (Jeeps and Rivian)

[PrepVet]

Again, apparently I got lucky on the dice rolls. My '13 JK was fantastic outside the timing cover and front axle oil leaks, both of which occurred before 60K miles.

On the bold, I spent a bit of time in a relative's 4-door OBX over Thanksgiving weekend and have to agree. It reminded me somewhat of GM's Playskool interiors of the '90s to be honest, especially the instrument panel. Didn't care at all for the floppy windows either, my '15 Mustang's windows are frameless too and don't do this.

I'm comparing an 07 MOPAR to a 21 Ford on the interior materials. I don't get why Ford did it, well I do, but I don't like it. The frameless windows on my 05 Mustang also are not a constant problem like they are on my Bronco... but only now that is cool/cold out.

Having driven a Bronco Sport I really am kinda thinking that was going to be the actual new Bronco (similar to what GM gave us with the new Blazer) and Ford rethought it and came up with the G6. And what I mean by that is the Sport is much more thought out and engineered and seemingly had better pre-production testing. The Sport is actually a nice car for what it is, named wrong perhaps but a pretty solid little thing. The exterior style of the Bronco (G6) is great, I really like it, but the interior layout and materials and odd ball issues just feels rushed. Like Ford wanted to get it out but started the process late. I dunno, my first model year has been good, but not awesome in terms of issues, but I can hand wave some of it due to first model year normal issues, but the interior materials and lay out I cannot. That was deliberate, and, IMHO, just Ford not caring/cheaping out.

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[North7]

It seems only a few actually understand how Consumer Reports works, it's not opinion, feature comparison or asking one or two owners what they think of any given model. They use a statistical survey method of actual owners, from hundreds to thousands, depending on the popularity of the model.

The raw data is the thing to study, you look at year over year changes, line by line, area by area, to see if the manufacturer realizes they have a problem and is doing anything to address it. For example, on the Jeep, look at the brakes line, from 2014 - 2017, it was in the Red (worse) Category, then starting in 2018 it got better, of course, that was the first year of a new model, and the brakes continued to get better each year. On the other hand, Steering and Suspension, never really improves (again, year over year changes, line by line, area by area).

Here are screen shots of the Jeep, Bronco and Rivian, this is the view you get when you join CR.

Jeep Wrangler:

 

[North7]

Ford Bronco:

 

[North7]

Rivian R1T:
On the Rivian R1T, you can see the statistical survey method in action. There are not a statistically significant number of owner respondents for 2023, so they don't show any data, just NA.

 

[6surfin6]

Currently own a 2022 JLU Sahara altitude with a 2.0 and a 2022 2dr base bronco 7 speed so here are my thoughts (both hardtops):

Jeep Pros:
1. Uconnect is more responsive than sync.
2. It’s quiet inside the cabin at 70mph, hardtop is superior.
3. Build quality is better.
4. MPG is much better, average 20/25. Got 27 mpg on a 400 mile round trip to the beach last week.
5. No problems in 12k miles
Jeep Cons:
1. Steering not as good as ifs.
2. Not as wide as bronco for interior room.

Bronco Pros:
1. Steering, handles better
2. Manual transmission is fun to drive with turbo.
Bronco Cons:
1. Transmission sounded like a rock tumbler from day one. Sat at the dealership for 2 months waiting to be fixed. Noise appears to be coming back. Have 2400 miles on it.
2. Build quality
3. MPG is bad compared to the jeep, getting 17/19.
4. Rattling windows.
5. Lots of noise in the cabin at 70 mph.

 

[Owl]

Well, I had a 2016 Wrangler V6 auto 2-door, and I've got a 2022 Bronco Base 2-door auto (also the V6). Here is my comparison. Note... I've only got 5K on the Bronco, but only had 10K on the Jeep.
Comparison:
1. V6/10-speed Bronco is much faster than V6/5-speed Jeep.
Both worked flawlessly. I know Jeep now has 8-speed, but I didn't!

I was getting 24 MPG with Jeep.
I struggle to get 22-24 MPG with Bronco (but I love the extra power). No doubt that Bronco has more power... although I like the simplicity of the non-turbo Jeep. I would think the extra "stuff" (turbos) will probably cost more down-the-road.

2. I always had fear of death-wobble in Jeep. No fear with Bronco.
Wrangler never had death-wobble, and handling was fine with 10K on it, but the fear was always there.

3. Bronco has a lot better ride (no question there)... I assume because of the help of the front-axle not being solid, and the extra length/width in the chassis.

4. Believe it or not... I wish the 2-Door Bronco was as short as the Jeep. I miss that. I've had short wheelbase 4WDs for 20 years... and like it.

5. Bronco does a lot better job of stowing rear-seats in 2-door build. This was a definite weak point with 2-door Wrangler. You'd think after 20 or so years they'd had figured that out better. Taking the seat out in Wrangler (I guess) was the answer.

6. I can't speak to the hardtop quality situation. Jeep SEEMED a bit better, but I haven't had any troubles with either one, but then I babied both (garage kept).

7. Road noise inside... both seemed pretty quiet, but I do get a little wind noise in the Bronco behind the passenger door at 70+. Nothing to write home about though. Both were quieter than my wife's Forester.

8. Road noise tires... I think the Bronco is a bit quieter (not sure why -- maybe tread). I slapped on OBX tires and rims, so that was about the same as was on my Jeep (i.e. 32s). Bronco IS quieter in regard to tire noise.

9. Dash -- Bronco wins... even with the 8" screen. Jeep had a very small screen in 2016, the previous owner had put in a 10" screen ($3000), and I think the 2022 still had a much smaller screen. I myself like the digital readout for the MPH on the Bronco, but miss the "real" dials a bit. Bottom line -- factory built Bronco dash is more flexible.

10. Jeep had leather seats (very nice quality). Bronco is Base. Good quality, but it wasn't leather, but then my Jeep wasn't a base model.

11. View out the front -- I like the view of the squared off fenders on the Bronco. You always know pretty much where the corners are. Not so much with the Jeep. I had 2 Jeeps and never got used to that.

My perfect vehicle? The length of the Jeep (shorter than Bronco), maybe the hardtop of the Jeep (it seemed a bit better built), the Bronco body, engine and 10-speed, and the axles and simplicity overall of a Toyota FJ40 from about 1980. Now that is a perfect combination.

 

[voxel]

Currently own a 2022 JLU Sahara altitude with a 2.0 and a 2022 2dr base bronco 7 speed so here are my thoughts (both hardtops):

Jeep Pros:
1. Uconnect is more responsive than sync.
2. It’s quiet inside the cabin at 70mph, hardtop is superior.
3. Build quality is better.
4. MPG is much better, average 20/25. Got 27 mpg on a 400 mile round trip to the beach last week.
5. No problems in 12k miles
Jeep Cons:
1. Steering not as good as ifs.
2. Not as wide as bronco for interior room.

Bronco Pros:
1. Steering, handles better
2. Manual transmission is fun to drive with turbo.
Bronco Cons:
1. Transmission sounded like a rock tumbler from day one. Sat at the dealership for 2 months waiting to be fixed. Noise appears to be coming back. Have 2400 miles on it.
2. Build quality
3. MPG is bad compared to the jeep, getting 17/19.
4. Rattling windows.
5. Lots of noise in the cabin at 70 mph.

I borrowed a friend's 21 Wrangler 4xe for a week and loved it compared to the loud noisy cheap mess that was my 23 2Dr Big Bend. It was peppy, had a vastly nicer interior, and the audio system didn't want me to pull out my ears like the BB Bronco. The wind noise on the 2Dr BB was just brutal over 75mph and the Wrangler 4xe was quiet by comparison. It drove okay in EV only mode but it was obvious Stellantis is a generation behind Toyota's PHEV system (I owned a 21 RAV4 Prime).

I do think many folks are comparing apples vs. oranges. My new 4Dr Heritage which is much quieter, rides smoother, has oodles more low end power (probably due to V6 and Sas gearing), and the 7 speaker audio system is step above the AM radio in my BB.

Wrangler Sahara 4xe >>>> 2 door Big Bend 2.3L Auto
4 door Heritage 2.7L Auto > Wrangler Sahara 4xe

 

[6surfin6]

I borrowed a friend's 21 Wrangler 4xe for a week and loved it compared to the loud noisy cheap mess that was my 23 2Dr Big Bend. It was peppy, had a vastly nicer interior, and the audio system didn't want me to pull out my ears like the BB Bronco. The wind noise on the 2Dr BB was just brutal over 75mph and the Wrangler 4xe was quiet by comparison. It drove okay in EV only mode but it was obvious Stellantis is a generation behind Toyota's PHEV system (I owned a 21 RAV4 Prime).

I do think many folks are comparing apples vs. oranges. My new 4Dr Heritage which is much quieter, rides smoother, has oodles more low end power (probably due to V6 and Sas gearing), and the 7 speaker audio system is step above the AM radio in my BB.

Wrangler Sahara 4xe >>>> 2 door Big Bend 2.3L Auto
4 door Heritage 2.7L Auto > Wrangler Sahara 4xe

I’m glad that your new heritage is much quieter, sounds like Ford made some improvements. I also love the look of the Heritage edition; I hope you’re enjoying it!

I enjoy my BB and it checks off all my current requirements (removable roof, 4x4 to drive on beach, tows my boat, and fits 4 people). It’s fun to drive around town and I plan to keep it until the warranty runs out. I was giving my experience between the two vehicles to give others a perspective.

I didn’t go with the 4xe wrangler because of three reasons:

• Like you said, the transition between gas and electric is clunky.
• Once the short-range battery dies, you’re lugging around a bunch of dead weight (bad for road trips).
• When the rear seats are folded down, there is a bump where the batter pack is.

I like both vehicles, but if Toyota made a 4x4 with a removable top both would be on the chopping block tomorrow.

 

[Owl]

Well, now would be a good time to buy a 4XE Wrangler... as there are lots on showroom floors.

You could probably find a Jeep dealer that would take that "cheap mess Bronco" off your hands for probably even-up. That wouldn't surprise me!

 

[voxel]

Well, now would be a good time to buy a 4XE Wrangler... as there are lots on showroom floors.

You could probably find a Jeep dealer that would take that "cheap mess Bronco" off your hands for probably even-up. That wouldn't surprise me!

I dumped that cheap mess a year ago. 4Dr 2.7 V6 Sasquatch all the way now.

As for Wranglers... that's how Stellantis works. They overprice them by defaultand only folks who do research know you can order them for 6-8% under MSRP plus all other Jeep rebates/incentives... which is $10K off sometimes. I considered a new 24 Wrangler briefly but they are so common and I never cared for the look of Wranglers.

There's no way you can even get close to new MSRP on a Bronco trade in. MMR/wholesale values are like $7K under new MSRP prices. It's why dealers can't just flip their Broncos to auction and why they can't change markup anymore.

Broncos are being heavily discounted too. I almost bought two different Badlands at $5K off current MSRP but both were still $10K more than my Heritage.

I’m glad that your new heritage is much quieter, sounds like Ford made some improvements. I also love the look of the Heritage edition; I hope you’re enjoying it!

I enjoy my BB and it checks off all my current requirements (removable roof, 4x4 to drive on beach, tows my boat, and fits 4 people). It’s fun to drive around town and I plan to keep it until the warranty runs out. I was giving my experience between the two vehicles to give others a perspective.

I didn’t go with the 4xe wrangler because of three reasons:

• Like you said, the transition between gas and electric is clunky.
• Once the short-range battery dies, you’re lugging around a bunch of dead weight (bad for road trips).
• When the rear seats are folded down, there is a bump where the batter pack is.

I like both vehicles, but if Toyota made a 4x4 with a removable top both would be on the chopping block tomorrow.

The battery hump and lack of cargo space is a huge negative. The small EV range is a the second big negative. My R4P had 42 miles advertised but could go 46+ easily and it didn't switch to HV/gas until you hit 85mph. The 4xe was barely getting 22-24 miles when I had it for a week. I vastly preferred it to the 2Dr Big Bend though.... for power reasons, for noise reasons, for interior reasons. Of course MSRP was probably $15K more than the BB. For that amount, I'd pick the Heritage lol.

 

[6surfin6]

I dumped that cheap mess a year ago. 4Dr 2.7 V6 Sasquatch all the way now.

As for Wranglers... that's how Stellantis works. They overprice them by defaultand only folks who do research know you can order them for 6-8% under MSRP plus all other Jeep rebates/incentives... which is $10K off sometimes. I considered a new 24 Wrangler briefly but they are so common and I never cared for the look of Wranglers.

There's no way you can even get close to new MSRP on a Bronco trade in. MMR/wholesale values are like $7K under new MSRP prices. It's why dealers can't just flip their Broncos to auction and why they can't change markup anymore.

Broncos are being heavily discounted too. I almost bought two different Badlands at $5K off current MSRP but both were still $10K more than my Heritage.




The battery hump and lack of cargo space is a huge negative. The small EV range is a the second big negative. My R4P had 42 miles advertised but could go 46+ easily and it didn't switch to HV/gas until you hit 85mph. The 4xe was barely getting 22-24 miles when I had it for a week. I vastly preferred it to the 2Dr Big Bend though.... for power reasons, for noise reasons, for interior reasons. Of course MSRP was probably $15K more than the BB. For that amount, I'd pick the Heritage lol.

You definitely made the right call getting the heritage. I also think the 4xe was rushed because of the tax credit which will effect long term reliability.

How did you like the R4P? Those things were going for crazy prices in 2021-2022. I’m guessing you got rid of it because you got some serious $ for it.

I had the wranglers oil changed at the dealership last month and walked the lot while waiting. They had a ton of gladiators and grand cherokees at steep discounts. I’ve also noticed online prices for a lot of different makes and models really started tanking in December. I think the pandemic price boom/craze is now officially over.

 

[voxel]

You definitely made the right call getting the heritage. I also think the 4xe was rushed because of the tax credit which will effect long term reliability.

How did you like the R4P? Those things were going for crazy prices in 2021-2022. I’m guessing you got rid of it because you got some serious $ for it.

I had the wranglers oil changed at the dealership last month and walked the lot while waiting. They had a ton of gladiators and grand cherokees at steep discounts. I’ve also noticed online prices for a lot of different makes and models really started tanking in December. I think the pandemic price boom/craze is now officially over.

R4P had insane 300+ hp in HV/gas mode with the EV battery charged (0 to 60 in upper 5s) and real world 36-38mpg. I enjoyed driving it on local roads in EV mode but hated every second on the highway where as I am loving the Heritage everywhere. I traded it away for about what I paid because buying a R4P meant eating various dealer add-ons + packages.

So... I complain about the Bronco's interior and NVH but the 21 RAV4 Prime was worse. $50K compact crossover with a $25K interior (cloth seats) + infotainment + audio (AM level) + ride quality. It had a droning engine and plenty of wind + road noise. Toyota slapped an expensive drivetrain on the cheapest RAV4 and doubled the price. Toyota made 6.6 kW charging, backlit buttons, and JBL audio standard standard in most trims from 23 onwards and kept the price basically the same so they did fix the majority of the cheap-ness issues I had with it. Ford is basically doing the same with the 24 year Broncos.

I do think PHEVs work best for folks who have one car that they want to do everything in but for a two car household... I suggest an EV plus gas car or just two hybrids. A short EV range is only really useful for daily errands and commutes.

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