🏁 King of the Hammers BRONCOS Sweep Podium in 4600 Class Everyman Challenge Race! These are OUR Spec Broncos

[Fordmanfrombirth]

Congratulations @Ford for finding ways to exploit loopholes and beat guys in their leaf sprung Toyota Pickups and Suzuki Samurais, and by throwing more money into your 3 "factory stock" race cars with professional driving teams than the rest of the 4600 class competition, combined.

You really are a glass half empty kinda guy.

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[Fordmanfrombirth]

That's honestly something many are wondering about. Now that they have their podium sweep, will they actually stick around the event? Or slide quietly back into the night.

Or, what would be a whole lot cooler, could this lead to the creation of a manufacturers class. I'd love to see Ford V Jeep on the lakebed.

That would be the ultimate race, but let’s throw Toyota and Land Rover in the mix too.

 

[da_jokker]

Congratulations @Ford for finding ways to exploit loopholes and beat guys in their leaf sprung Toyota Pickups and Suzuki Samurais, and by throwing more money into your 3 "factory stock" race cars with professional driving teams than the rest of the 4600 class competition, combined.

I didn't read all the back and forth from this thread, but I agree with you. It blows me away how differently a lot of people think nowadays.

I was recently playing my online game, and literally saw someone cheating. When I called them on it they, along with many others online at the time, proceeded to explain to me that he wasn't cheating and was just taking advantage of glitches and exploits in the game. Their reasoning was because the game let them do it, it was legit.

So after a while of back and forth arguing, I finally said: I can physically walk out of the store without paying for my stuff And they can't do anything about it, so I guess it's okay!

It's unfortunate that people have lost all sense of fairness And only care about themselves. Just look how people drive!

 

[MadMan4BamaNATL]

I didn't read all the back and forth from this thread, but I agree with you. It blows me away how differently a lot of people think nowadays.

I was recently playing my online game, and literally saw someone cheating. When I called them on it they, along with many others online at the time, proceeded to explain to me that he wasn't cheating and was just taking advantage of glitches and exploits in the game. Their reasoning was because the game let them do it, it was legit.

So after a while of back and forth arguing, I finally said: I can physically walk out of the store without paying for my stuff And they can't do anything about it, so I guess it's okay!

It's unfortunate that people have lost all sense of fairness And only care about themselves. Just look how people drive!

I don’t get it?

So, it seems there are guys here who want Ultra4 and maybe other Motorsports to be a grassroots thing; is that right?

Although I do respect the romanticization of this as a principle, not sure any successful, sustainable motorsports could ever truly remain grassroots; it’s too expensive to go racing.

Factory input is the key to it all. Even the shop builders don’t, can’t build a motor. They buy an LS or a Coyote, or a Hemi, reason being, those motors cost billions in R&D and man hours from teams of mechanical engineers. Even the guys who work for our best mod companies can’t afford, nor have the expertise to build a race spec motor that won’t blow up. The Carol Shelby days are over fellas. I miss them too, but car building is a very different world than it was in 1957-1973.

Ford being a sponsor and racing in KOH gives it legitimacy and a future. If it weren’t for factory sponsorship, not even sure KOH would still survive. I guess it’s a catch 22 of sorts for many, but I just understand the economics and scale of it all.

Other thing is that these Shops are not small who enter racers, nor do they pay out of pocket; they seek and are funded by sponsors. Lite Brite was not the only sponsored entry in the race; they all are!

What is different, again, is the quality of the drivers and the support crews that come with factory drivers. Sure, the portal axles seem to have struck a nerve with may of you, but Loren, Vaughn, et al would have still smoked the field of the 4600 class even without portals and maybe with a true stock Bronco Badlands with a lift.

The Gomez Bros, Scherer, Slawson, etc in the 4400 class are professional and best in the world. Sure, there are some European and Mid East racers who also belong in this discussion, but collectively, you can enter the same field as these men, but you are not, nor never will be their equal. Even if we give them your rig, they’d still drag your asses all across the damn desert any time, any race, any place, even without a factory crew.

Professional racers are just better than you, stop complaining and thinking otherwise. It’s not about fairness, it’s about racing and winning and these guys have a right to enter whatever race they want to compete and win, and they do and that won’t ever change.

 

[goatman2]

That's exactly it. To keep the front end alive and maximize the ground clearance, 74Weld made a set of front portals that replace the steering knuckles. The rulebook doesn't specify stock knuckles. But when Jesse Haines bent the rules last year in a similar fashion by building a Mahindra Roxor for the same class, there was an uproar.

I'm not taking away from the fact that they completed the course, but at the end of the day they went out and beat up on the orriginal Every Man Challenge class with professional drivers (who all dropped down classes to race 4600) in full factory backed and supported vehicles.

For perspective, those portal boxes from 74weld start at $5k per box. They have 6 sets of boxes built for racing, and still have a full set of RCV's in front of them. Probably $50k right there between the 3 broncos.

The uproar over the Roxor wasn't the portal axles, which happen to be Jesse Haines own product. The issue was the Roxor is not a street legal vehicle, it is sold as a UTV. Sure, it's almost unfair competition to have factory based vehicles in the stock class, but it also is what the class is for. It was originally conceived as a platform for companies to display and promote their products. It also bring tremendous attention to the class, to King of the Hammers, and to the sport. So, except for the other competitors in the class in the particular race, it's a huge win for everyone. And, everything on these Broncos is 100% class legal, no loopholes exploited.

Regarding the money spent, no question, no one can afford or will pay for the front end on these things. I was told a figure to duplicate the front ends if one of us wanted one that way, and it was in the range of the total for all three number you said. It includes the 8k per side portal boxes, the custom knuckles, A arms, trophy truck steering, all the fabrication, etc.

 

[BigMeatsBronco]

I'll be ordering portals.

 

[BigMeatsBronco]

I didn't read all the back and forth from this thread, but I agree with you. It blows me away how differently a lot of people think nowadays.

I was recently playing my online game, and literally saw someone cheating. When I called them on it they, along with many others online at the time, proceeded to explain to me that he wasn't cheating and was just taking advantage of glitches and exploits in the game. Their reasoning was because the game let them do it, it was legit.

So after a while of back and forth arguing, I finally said: I can physically walk out of the store without paying for my stuff And they can't do anything about it, so I guess it's okay!

It's unfortunate that people have lost all sense of fairness And only care about themselves. Just look how people drive!

Getting Portals isn't cheating, its mechanical advantages being added to more than one class. Go pound sand.

 

[da_jokker]

I don’t get it?

So, it seems there are guys here who want Ultra4 and maybe other Motorsports to be a grassroots thing; is that right?

Although I do respect the romanticization of this as a principle, not sure any successful, sustainable motorsports could ever truly remain grassroots; it’s too expensive to go racing.

Factory input is the key to it all. Even the shop builders don’t, can’t build a motor. They buy an LS or a Coyote, or a Hemi, reason being, those motors cost billions in R&D and man hours from teams of mechanical engineers. Even the guys who work for our best mod companies can’t afford, nor have the expertise to build a race spec motor that won’t blow up. The Carol Shelby days are over fellas. I miss them too, but car building is a very different world than it was in 1957-1973.

Ford being a sponsor and racing in KOH gives it legitimacy and a future. If it weren’t for factory sponsorship, not even sure KOH would still survive. I guess it’s a catch 22 of sorts for many, but I just understand the economics and scale of it all.

Other thing is that these Shops are not small who enter racers, nor do they pay out of pocket; they seek and are funded by sponsors. Lite Brite was not the only sponsored entry in the race; they all are!

What is different, again, is the quality of the drivers and the support crews that come with factory drivers. Sure, the portal axles seem to have struck a nerve with may of you, but Loren, Vaughn, et al would have still smoked the field of the 4600 class even without portals and maybe with a true stock Bronco Badlands with a lift.

The Gomez Bros, Scherer, Slawson, etc in the 4400 class are professional and best in the world. Sure, there are some European and Mid East racers who also belong in this discussion, but collectively, you can enter the same field as these men, but you are not, nor never will be their equal. Even if we give them your rig, they’d still drag your asses all across the damn desert any time, any race, any place, even without a factory crew.

Professional racers are just better than you, stop complaining and thinking otherwise. It’s not about fairness, it’s about racing and winning and these guys have a right to enter whatever race they want to compete and win, and they do and that won’t ever change.

Just in my opinion, if it's strictly talking about money, and professional drivers, and I'm actually okay with that. In no world can a guy with $5 be able to compete against people with $5,000.

That's not what I was referring to.. I'm talking about people that exploit loophole for their personal gain.

If the rules state a stock engine, and someone doesn't use a stock engine then that's cheating. However if the rules say you must use stock gearing, and someone figures out a way to adjust their gearing but still remain "stock", that's a loophole and shouldn't count.

* Those are totally made up, I was just trying to get some examples.

Believe me I know..used it to my advantage many years ago in a school experiment contest. Pissed off everyone else in my class... Even the teacher. So the following year we made sure to cover the "loophole".

But I was young and being a dick... doesn't make it fair just because I didn't break the rules, doesn't mean I didn't follow the "idea" of the activity.

 

[MadMan4BamaNATL]

Just in my opinion, if it's strictly talking about money, and professional drivers, and I'm actually okay with that. In no world can a guy with $5 be able to compete against people with $5,000.

That's not what I was referring to.. I'm talking about people that exploit loophole for their personal gain.

If the rules state a stock engine, and someone doesn't use a stock engine then that's cheating. However if the rules say you must use stock gearing, and someone figures out a way to adjust their gearing but still remain "stock", that's a loophole and shouldn't count.

* Those are totally made up, I was just trying to get some examples.

Believe me I know..used it to my advantage many years ago in a school experiment contest. Pissed off everyone else in my class... Even the teacher. So the following year we made sure to cover the "loophole".

But I was young and being a dick... doesn't make it fair just because I didn't break the rules, doesn't mean I didn't follow the "idea" of the activity.

Ok, I see; makes sense to me more now.

Also, don't want you to think my reply was to you per se, but to many others who've been posting some interesting perspectives here.

You know by now that I respect and enjoy your posts, insight, and banter.

 

[Oldhippie]

To celebrate the 1-2-3 Bronco win at #KingOfTheHammers, Ford is offering 20% off Performance Parts up to $1,000! Go get your accessories! Discount code: FORDXKOH Today – 2/12/22 http://Accessories.ford.com

Thanks! Saved a couple hundred bucks!

 

[goatman2]

Ford didn't "progress into" the 4600 class. They paid 4400 class drivers to step down into a class that was created in for your everyday Joe Schmoe to be able to go out and have fun on a budget after big money sponsors started getting behind what is now the 4400 unlimited class. The 4600 class was created to keep the spirit of the orriginal KOH races alive.

They beat a couple 1980's Toyota Pickups and Suzuki Samurais with a full factory backed race effort. It's not the magical accomplishment that I'm sure their marketing team will spin it into.

Justin won in his Toyota pickup twice because he ran a clean race and finished. And did an awesome job of driving. And a very good job of race prepping the truck. Others didn't do so good of prepping their cars and didn't do so good a job of driving, and there are very experienced drives and cars in the class. Big time kudos to Justin.

As far as paid drivers to step down a class, yes they did. However, it's been done before. Eric Miller built a 5.9L ZJ and won one year (he's a two time KOH winner), and I placed 3rd that year. I raced 4400 before there was a stock class 4600 and have a 7th place in 4400, and then I won the first 4600 National Championship. Matt Peterson raced 4400 when I did and then raced 4600 and won, and I placed 2nd that year (but I did beat him in 4400). So, yes, they had top notch drivers, but it's not the first time.

Most of the people in 4600 race because they want the challenge and the experience and they race to finish, or at least to see how far they can get. This year, only one other 4600 car finished within the time limit. This is a way for people to be involved. To go out and pre-run a racecourse, to be a race team at KOH, to be a race car driver, to bench race for months with friends. It's an entire experience. There are some very well built and driven 4600 cars in the class. XJ's with race motors, ZJ's with built 5.9's, TJ's, JK's, a JL with a 6.2L Hemi driven by two time KOH champ Eric Miller. So, while I get your point, Ford did kinda buy the race, they didn't just race against Toyotas and Samis.

I think the biggest accomplishment they did Friday from a racers perspective is all three Broncos finished ahead of all of the 4500 cars. This is stock frame, body, and motor Broncos on 35" tires beat every 4500 class car that have coilovers and bypass shocks and are full race buggy cars with big power race motors and 37" tires. To me, THAT is a huge accomplishment, and all three Broncos did it. Sure, we expected them to likely beat the other 4600 cars, but for all three to also beat every single 4500 car is a big time accomplishment. I wonder what tune those 2.7 motors have?

 

[goatman2]

Also, let me make a comment about professional drivers. There are no KOH winners that were professional race car drivers before KOH. All of the "professional" race car drivers who have come to compete in KOH have been beaten by the original grassroots rock crawling guys that became King of the Hammers champions. They all have day jobs and/or they own shops that build buggies. Only Brad Lovell could be called a purely professional driver and he and Roger started out in rock crawling competition and evolved into desert racing. Bailey Cole is 24 yrs old and his dad Dave Cole owns Ultra4. Bailey started racing with his IFS Tacoma in 4600 class when he was a teenager. He was the kid that we helped and had a ton of fun with. Some have only started businesses that build or relate to rock sports products after they became KOH champions, before they were just rock crawling guys.

So, yes, Ford got very good drivers, both to try to win and as promotional value, but the term "professional" drivers has some qualifications to it.

 

[goatman2]

Go look back at the first KOH. And look at it now very different. Look at the Baja 500/1000 20 years ago very different. Big money sponsors intervene and races like these lose there everyman grass roots weekend warrior vibe. You want to win get a corporate sponsor and through a shit ton of money at it. Love it or hate it it's just the way it goes

You make a good point. However, Justin Reese has won stock class 4600 twice in his leaf springs Toyota pickup, and recently. He beat a ton of very highly modified Jeeps of all types and all motors, and with good experienced drivers. Very good race vehicles still break down or crash. Yes, Ford spent a ton of money. It is still kind of amazing that all three Broncos finished. Easily could have been some new car blues and a very different result. Overall finish percentage is very low, even with high dollar cars that are well prepped with experienced teams and drivers. As someone who will have a Bronco, is very involved in KOH from the beginning, and a successful 4600 racer, I think it's pretty damn cool.

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