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OX1

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You have to have torque where? Someplace the converter flashes right past?
Eventually is the key!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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OX1

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You hit the nail on the head. The brochure mentions articulation verbally, but added a diagram focused solely on ground clearance, even though the greater benefit is articulation, which keeps wheels on the ground for traction more frequently.
And many times even more important than traction, is just the tire touching the ground lightly for stability. Ford, it appears did a good job of keeping you going with a wheel in the air, but as you start getting more off camber in harder core terrain (especially not on sand paper trails where you slip off the line you picked, a LOT) , the stability will not be there.

The other things Jeep forgot the mention are lower weight, narrower body (maybe they didn't want to say they have less interior volume) and factory narrowed front end. It's going to be a lot easier to bang up the body on a bronc vs a jeep, always has been, especially in the front.
 

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Jeep has been in business a long time, they will be fine.
Jeep has been in business a long time, they will be fine, under yet another new owner:

Willys-Overland
Kaiser
AMC
Chrysler
Daimler-Benz
Cerberus Capital Management
Fiat
FCA
Stellantis
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OX1

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Ecoboostvs62vs50-HP-Torque.png


For off idle torque 3.5L Ecoboost > V8 by a long shot. That TT screaming along at 1600 RPM makes more torque than the 5.0 "loafing" at 4500 RPM. I know it's the Ford 6.2 not the Hemi, but since there is only 12 ft/lbs difference in peak torque it's a reasonable assumption the EB would hold an edge over that also. And I know the 3.5 isn't available in the Bronco, but you said any Ecoboost. I'm not trying to start a flame war, just correcting misinformation because as a wise man once said:



:)
AFTER IT SPOOLS. People wonder why I am yelling, because no one is listening, just spouting the same BS of numbers that happen, eventually (or after brake boost, ridiculous concept on an offroader).

Just because a converter slips into an RPM range of a small engine that is not under boost yet, does not make the directly off idle argument moot. The converter flash is not instantaneous either. A converter slipping from idle to stall is still transmitting the power available while it gets to stall (and even the tiny coyote pisses all over even a 2.7 ECO while this is happening). You get more torque transmitted directly off idle by a larger engine while the converter is "flashing". You also get severe throttle manipulation on ecoboosts trying to build boost, you do not need on coyote's and up. It ALL adds up to delays.

Those charts are theoretical curves, not dynos. If you are going to put up a chart like that then I want the "X" part of chart modified for the time since initial throttle actuation. Who cares if I get 1000 ft-lbs, 8 hours after I wanted it. That chart is apples and oranges once you throw in turbos. They also aren't datalogs. I've posted both, numerous times. Lets stick with reality please.
 

Bobthebuilder

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“Friends don’t let friends drive Dodge” they said... I love the 392, with Dodge comes brakes that squeal like a bus, occasional rattles, a ton of cheap plastic, and a really old unchanging architecture., but I can look past the small issues because the drivetrain is fantastic - far more exhilarating than previous BMWs and Mustangs. I can look past a lot at the 38K price point. Put a 392 in a Jeep and I get excited - do it at 45K and I dump my Bronco reservation... but who are we kidding. Jeeps are “Dodge” with respect to noise, ride handling, cheap plastic interiors. (Actually much worse - who the heck sells a car with roll up windows north of 10K these days?). Jeep comes with all the quarks of a Dodge, at the price point of a luxury vehicle, and with the drivetrain from a minivan. Jeep will sell a few 392’s at 70K to a small group of people that never plan on retiring. Dodge figured out how to sell Chargers and Challengers, and all it took was the 392 under 40K. When they did it north of 50K, nobody bought them... the 3.6 Penstar belongs in a caravan. The 2.0Turbo belongs in a civic hatchback, the eco diesel belongs in Europe, and the hybrid belongs in a Yaris. I’m keeping the challenger and the Sienna - but Bronco for me!
 

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AFTER IT SPOOLS. People wonder why I am yelling, because no one is listening, just spouting the same BS of numbers that happen, eventually (or after brake boost, ridiculous concept on an offroader).

Just because a converter slips into an RPM range of a small engine that is not under boost yet, does not make the directly off idle argument moot. The converter flash is not instantaneous either. A converter slipping from idle to stall is still transmitting the power available while it gets to stall (and even the tiny coyote pisses all over even a 2.7 ECO while this is happening). You get more torque transmitted directly off idle by a larger engine while the converter is "flashing". You also get severe throttle manipulation on ecoboosts trying to build boost, you do not need on coyote's and up. It ALL adds up to delays.

Those charts are theoretical curves, not dynos. If you are going to put up a chart like that then I want the "X" part of chart modified for the time since initial throttle actuation. Who cares if I get 1000 ft-lbs, 8 hours after I wanted it. That chart is apples and oranges once you throw in turbos. They also aren't datalogs. I've posted both, numerous times. Lets stick with reality please.
You have some deep technical insight on turbos, but this is an interesting thread, about FCA, not turbos. Please start a new thread and don't take this thread off on a tangent.
 

jasonof2010

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?? When your #1 "Advantage" is Brand Heritage you have a HUGE Problem :ROFLMAO: lmfao!
I can't think of a brand I'm interested in that "heritage" is a selling point. Take Harley their "Heritage" is a major turn off for anyone below the age of 50.
 

BroncBro

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My opinion is that Jeep or the way it is, is not the problem. FCA is the problem. If Ford or Chevy bought Jeep back in the late 80s instead of Chrysler, it would be a much better quality vehicle.
 

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Agree.....my buddy is the biggest Jeep guy around and he came over last night at my request to help me decide between a two or four door Bronco. He was a great sport about it and actually loved the Bronco. Anyways, he went on complaining that he wakes up every morning after a hard rain to find his carpet soaked inside his three year old Wrangler.
I have a 18 year old convertible that I've owned for 10. It's never leaked until the top started to physically degrade from age and even then never from the seals. That is just plain unacceptable.

I've never wanted a Jeep (their fan club is about as annoying as HD's and Tesla's) but I'm likely getting a Bronco.
 

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I was seriously looking at getting a fully loaded Wrangler Rubicon, but what got me was the price deferences between a dealership and a stealership for the same vehicle. The difference between buying in Texas vs Idaho was 15% if purchased in Idaho. What I liked about Ford was they reigned in on the dealers marking up the prices. Could FCA do that?
 

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Jeep is better than Ford's marketing arm. Maybe we should hire Jeep to market the Bronco.
 

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I test drove a Wrangler in 2018. Liked it, didn't love it. Did some research. When the salesman called a few days later, I asked him about the "Jeep Death Wobble." He said he had never heard of it. When I told him there were over 10,000 hits on Google, he said "maybe two or three people have complained about it." He lost me right there.

One of the reasons I wanted a Jeep: it comes in yellow with a black roof. Steelers colors. Will give Fiat props for better colors on Jeeps.
 

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Jeep lost me when they got rid of Punk'n and Mojito and kept the more generic colors, and also making stick solely available with the 3.6 instead of the 2.0t as well

Petty, but honest
 

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I see people on here dumping on Jeep, but come on, ford isn’t all that better. Let’s face it, no one is buying a Jeep, or Bronco for reliability anyway.
Well, actually, I AM buying a Bronco based on the excellent experience I've had with my 2002 Escape. Over 234,000 miles and still going strong. Built Ford Tough, baby!
 

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Jeep has been in business a long time, they will be fine, under yet another new owner:

Willys-Overland
Kaiser
AMC
Chrysler
Daimler-Benz
Cerberus Capital Management
Fiat
FCA
Stellantis
???
yes and still selling thousands and thousands of units a year. How many broncos were sold in the last 25 years? Jeep has little to worry about, even w Ford taking some of the pie
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