Dealer insists it’s 6 quarts for oil change on my 2.7L

[da_jokker]

For normal driving, you can easily be a quart low, and most likely never have any long term affect.

But what happens when you start offroading and taking steep angles? I find it hard to believe that Ford could simply dismiss an entire quart of oil and then still claim that everything is fine and that the Bronco is still capable of it's max angles.

And as others have said...more oil = more cooling... But I don't know what cooling capability is lost via 1 quart.

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[JohnnyBronco]

For normal driving, you can easily be a quart low, and most likely never have any long term affect.

But what happens when you start offroading and taking steep angles? I find it hard to believe that Ford could simply dismiss an entire quart of oil and then still claim that everything is fine and that the Bronco is still capable of it's max angles.

And as others have said...more oil = more cooling... But I don't know what cooling capability is lost via 1 quart.

You could run the oil they used to advertise where they drained it all from a Viper and then took said Viper out on the track with no ill effects

 

[da_jokker]

I've changed the oil twice on my '22 Badlands 2.7 Sasquatch. I drained it completely for 30 minutes both times (did not measure how much came out). I put exactly 7 quarts back in both times. It shows overfill on the dipstick but it was like that from the factory. I have the extended warranty so I'm not worried... there's PLENTY of info out there from Ford where they told us to put 7 quarts in... so if something goes wrong with the 2.7 and they try to blame me I'll sue the crap out of Ford.

This seems rational, and of course it could be used as a logical argument...for one side.

But also think of the other side of the argument...

You, as an owner, filled your engine 1 quart over what the corrected documentation states, you knowingly filled it past the max line on the dipstick even though there were explicit warnings not to go past the max mark. Ford has taken all proper actions to notify their service centers and update their documentation as to correct an initial typo. Had it been serviced by Ford dealer, it would have not been overfilled.


Not saying you wouldn't win, but
By the time you fought Ford in court, You probably could have bought yourself another Bronco.

 

[BroncoB]

For normal driving, you can easily be a quart low, and most likely never have any long term affect.

But what happens when you start offroading and taking steep angles? I find it hard to believe that Ford could simply dismiss an entire quart of oil and then still claim that everything is fine and that the Bronco is still capable of it's max angles.

And as others have said...more oil = more cooling... But I don't know what cooling capability is lost via 1 quart.

I would have to go back and read all the RUD failures, but one thing that sticks in my mind is a lot of the RUDs happened on the highway, when the motor was really humming along, which would be when an overfilled engine would cause the most problems by aerating the oil as opposed to low rpm.

 

[Razorbak86]

This seems rational, and of course it could be used as a logical argument...for one side.

But also think of the other side of the argument...

You, as an owner, filled your engine 1 quart over what the corrected documentation states, you knowingly filled it past the max line on the dipstick even though there were explicit warnings not to go past the max mark. Ford has taken all proper actions to notify their service centers and update their documentation as to correct an initial typo. Had it been serviced by Ford dealer, it would have not been overfilled.


Not saying you wouldn't win, but
By the time you fought Ford in court, You probably could have bought yourself another Bronco.

I would have to go back and read all the RUD failures, but one thing that sticks in my mind is a lot of the RUDs happened on the highway, when the motor was really humming along, which would be when an overfilled engine would cause the most problems by aerating the oil as opposed to low rpm.

SSM 50981 2021-2022 Bronco – 2.7L GTDI Engine – Service Oil Capacity UpdateThe 2021-2022 Bronco 2.7L GTDI engine oil capacity specification with oil filter change has been updated to 6 quarts. The workshop manual has been updated with this information and electronic versions of the owner’s manual are in process of receiving the update. Following the previously recommended capacity is not necessary, but will not cause any harm to the engine. The initial fill capacity for a new/dry engine remains 7.5 quarts.

 

[BroncoB]

SSM 50981 2021-2022 Bronco – 2.7L GTDI Engine – Service Oil Capacity UpdateThe 2021-2022 Bronco 2.7L GTDI engine oil capacity specification with oil filter change has been updated to 6 quarts. The workshop manual has been updated with this information and electronic versions of the owner’s manual are in process of receiving the update. Following the previously recommended capacity is not necessary, but will not cause any harm to the engine. The initial fill capacity for a new/dry engine remains 7.5 quarts.

There are a lot of different ways Ford could be covering their own ass with that disclaimer.

 

[BroncoB]

Go with whatever makes you happy. I have an an engine that is known for failures, so I intend to follow Ford‘s recommendations.

If you’re in the 7 qt camp, I think the only thing to do is do what Ford does, not what Ford says (or doesn’t say in this case). If Ford continues putting in 7 qts and changes the dip stick to read 7 qts, then 7 it is. If they change the initial fill to 6 qts then I think they had a valid reason to change it to 6. If they continue filling it with 7qts and supply a stick that reads 6 qts then that’s just retarded and I don’t know what to tell you.

 

[Razorbak86]

There are a lot of different ways Ford could be covering their own ass with that disclaimer.

Agreed. The entire SSM is bullshit, but you can rest assured that, if the engineers felt the 2.7L RUD incidents were due to overfilling instead of a bad batch of valve spring keepers, there is no way that FoMoCo would still be doing 7.5-quart factory dry fill.

 

[BroncoB]

Agreed. The entire SSM is bullshit, but you can rest assured that, if the engineers felt the 2.7L RUD incidents were due to overfilling instead of a bad batch of valve spring keepers, there is no way that FoMoCo would still be doing 7.5-quart factory dry fill.

I’m not saying that is the problem, but their silence on it is deafening.
I think they are working through that and will be changing to 6qts. Everything indicates they are moving to 6. Unfortunately these things do not change overnight.

 

[Razorbak86]

I think they are working through that and will be changing to 6qts. Everything indicates they are moving to 6. Unfortunately these things do not change overnight.

Understood. If and when they do change the factory dry fill, I will change my service fill. As an engineer, I am by nature skeptical, and I have learned over time to pay more attention to what companies do than to what they say.

 

[broncorik]

SSM 50981 2021-2022 Bronco – 2.7L GTDI Engine – Service Oil Capacity UpdateThe 2021-2022 Bronco 2.7L GTDI engine oil capacity specification with oil filter change has been updated to 6 quarts. The workshop manual has been updated with this information and electronic versions of the owner’s manual are in process of receiving the update. Following the previously recommended capacity is not necessary, but will not cause any harm to the engine. The initial fill capacity for a new/dry engine remains 7.5 quarts.

You should also highlight in red the warning clearly stated in the former (and current) owners manual that say for not fill past the max mark...a direct contradiction of "will not cause harm to the engine." So which is it, Ford?

 

[cowman]

This seems rational, and of course it could be used as a logical argument...for one side.

But also think of the other side of the argument...

You, as an owner, filled your engine 1 quart over what the corrected documentation states, you knowingly filled it past the max line on the dipstick even though there were explicit warnings not to go past the max mark. Ford has taken all proper actions to notify their service centers and update their documentation as to correct an initial typo. Had it been serviced by Ford dealer, it would have not been overfilled.


Not saying you wouldn't win, but
By the time you fought Ford in court, You probably could have bought yourself another Bronco.

Never head of anyone checking how much oil was in an engine after it failed.... Only thing I have heard of ... Hey man you had not oil in the engine..... never heard... Hey man you were a qt overfull when your engine failed....

 

[BroncoB]

Agreed. The entire SSM is bullshit, but you can rest assured that, if the engineers felt the 2.7L RUD incidents were due to overfilling instead of a bad batch of valve spring keepers, there is no way that FoMoCo would still be doing 7.5-quart factory dry fill.

You have to wonder why they put such a polarizing and unnecessary disclaimer in there to begin with, especially when they are so silent on everything else. Also, consider who the SSM is written for. It’s not written for us. The owner’s manual is written for us and the newest one doesn’t say anything about 6 being recommended and 7 quarts being ok.

 

[broncorik]

Your math is a little flawed. .3 qts is not 3 oz, but 9.6oz.. I got the same out, 6.7qts, which really wasn’t a precise measurement when eyeball measuring in qts. That number was totally expected. I've generally accepted 1/4 quart loss on a drain as being residual left in the filter, clinging to the drain pan (which is actually quite a bit), oil consumption, and evaporative loss. If anyone got a whole 7 quarts out then they got out more than they should have and are getting out more than they are putting back in. Not by much and it doesn't really matter but next time I bet they only drain out around 6 3/4 quarts.

Oops my math was a lot flawed...so I got out just over 6.7 quarts...6.79...but close to 7.

 

[Razorbak86]

I’m not saying that is the problem, but their silence on it is deafening.
I think they are working through that and will be changing to 6qts. Everything indicates they are moving to 6. Unfortunately these things do not change overnight.

You have to wonder why they put such a polarizing and unnecessary disclaimer in there to begin with, especially when they are so silent on everything else. Also, consider who the SSM is written for. It’s not written for us. The owner’s manual is written for us and the newest one doesn’t say anything about 6 being recommended and 7 quarts being ok.

Ford is frequently silent about controversial issues to the end users, because we are not their direct wholesale customers. The franchise dealers are, as governed by state franchise laws.

Therefore, you have to look at what they say to their own wholesale customers through SSMs and to national regulators during ongoing traffic safety investigations.

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