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Transfer Case Technical Discussion

The Driving Viking

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Jeep started offering the Rock Trac full time 4 wheel drive system. I wonder how that compares? Seems likes it's somewhat operated similar in the sense that's its electronically engaged and clutch packs. And has CV joints. I'm not a technically knowledgeable when it comes to this stuff. So not fully sure.

Wouldn't that be something if Stellantis goes to a more electronically driven system as the only option in the next gen Jeep in 2025 and the die hards have a heart attack.

It seems they might be trying to slowly ween them in that direction in plain sight. Not sure but everything is going electronic these days. It's only a matter of time.

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Bmadda

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Thank you for putting in the work to disprove “fake news.” Your post is incredibly important.
In hindsight after thinking about it, if you were negotiating challenging terrain, and this happened the 1-2 punch of losing front locker and SB disco at the same time might very well feel like losing all front drive. Also noticed that the light on the hero panel didn't go off. I still think Ford could come up with some better software to manage these types of failures, but I get it...front locker and SB disco have limits to what speed they can be used at for safety, and if the computer doesn't have reliable speed data, they gotta be shut off. I think I could come up w/an emergency override pretty easily tho!
 

Felix808

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In hindsight after thinking about it, if you were negotiating challenging terrain, and this happened the 1-2 punch of losing front locker and SB disco at the same time might very well feel like losing all front drive. Also noticed that the light on the hero panel didn't go off. I still think Ford could come up with some better software to manage these types of failures, but I get it...front locker and SB disco have limits to what speed they can be used at for safety, and if the computer doesn't have reliable speed data, they gotta be shut off. I think I could come up w/an emergency override pretty easily tho!
I wouldn't think the sway bar would reconnect in the middle of a flexed obstacle though to reestablish a load on the system, unless you failed to disengage it before hand so it might still be ok until you flattened out :unsure:
 

Bmadda

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I wouldn't think the sway bar would reconnect in the middle of a flexed obstacle though to reestablish a load on the system, unless you failed to disengage it before hand so it might still be ok until you flattened out :unsure:
Ya, I am certain it has a means of re-centering itself, otherwise you would have a frt suspension that looks like a broken low rider w/a wierd lean. There was a good thread on here about how the SB disco works, can't find it atm. But either way once the tires cross roughly the center position it will be locked again. The computer just shuts off the solenoid. I could here it click when I unplugged the WSS
 

mike8675309

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Ya, I am certain it has a means of re-centering itself, otherwise you would have a frt suspension that looks like a broken low rider w/a wierd lean. There was a good thread on here about how the SB disco works, can't find it atm. But either way once the tires cross roughly the center position it will be locked again. The computer just shuts off the solenoid. I could here it click when I unplugged the WSS
The stay bar disconnect essentially breaks the connection to both sides of the stay bar. The links stay connected, but either side of the bar can move independently of each other. It does this through combined hydraulic pressure and spring pressure. Once you wish to reconnect the sway bar, it will automatically reconnect once the two halves of the bars are parallel with each other again.
 

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Bmadda

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The stay bar disconnect essentially breaks the connection to both sides of the stay bar. The links stay connected, but either side of the bar can move independently of each other. It does this through combined hydraulic pressure and spring pressure. Once you wish to reconnect the sway bar, it will automatically reconnect once the two halves of the bars are parallel with each other again.
Thats all fine, but I do not wish to reconnect it. The computer makes me do it whenever a WSS fails. That could happen when the front is flexed out. I'm sure it doesn't lock till its in the middle again, but I don't remember how it does that. Not important so long as it does tho.
 

mike8675309

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Thats all fine, but I do not wish to reconnect it. The computer makes me do it whenever a WSS fails. That could happen when the front is flexed out. I'm sure it doesn't lock till its in the middle again, but I don't remember how it does that. Not important so long as it does tho.
Sorry, found the details here . It's all hydraulic, and when disconnected solenoid valves are open, when closes solenoid valves are closed. Fail-safe is open though if control is still maintained, it may fail-safe closed. This is because it automatically closes the valves when going over 20mph, but I bet if the car can't detect speed it would have to try and close the valves. Otherwise, you would have stability issues at highway speeds. I would be shocked if a single WSS failure could impact this, but you never know.
 

Felix808

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NV transfer cases I used to work on that were part time had them
You had to be careful clocking them for clearance and having the pickup tube bit submerged
Thanks. Now that I look at a NP-231, it has a pump but not the pickup tube, so that is what threw me. For some reason I was thinking it was just a slinger. And the old gear drive boxes Dana 20 & 300 don't have pumps.
 

Felix808

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Thats all fine, but I do not wish to reconnect it. The computer makes me do it whenever a WSS fails. That could happen when the front is flexed out. I'm sure it doesn't lock till its in the middle again, but I don't remember how it does that. Not important so long as it does tho.
Did you happen to see what happens if you unplug the sway-bar? I wonder if the front locker would work, what trouble codes popped up :unsure:. Curious as to what the result would be if the sway-bar was completely removed if it failed outside of warranty ;)
 

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mcinfantry

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Thanks. Now that I look at a NP-231, it has a pump but not the pickup tube, so that is what threw me. For some reason I was thinking it was just a slinger. And the old gear drive boxes Dana 20 & 300 don't have pumps.
Yeah
200/205 slung oil too
241/242 had the tube
 

Bmadda

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Did you happen to see what happens if you unplug the sway-bar? I wonder if the front locker would work, what trouble codes popped up :unsure:. Curious as to what the result would be if the sway-bar was completely removed if it failed outside of warranty ;)
I did not, but that's something I would like to check. I don't see any reason to lock out the locker if the disco has failed tho. I guess I'll add that to my list of things to try!
 

Laminar

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Certain configurations of the 6G Bronco with the ESOF have a front-axle disconnect. This is done to physically disconnect the front axle to reduce overall rotating mass and is basically the modern equivalent of "disengaging the hubs".
The modern equivalent of disengaging the hubs is disengaging the hubs. F-150s have had vacuum hubs for decades and the latest generation swapped to electric actuation, but they still disconnect the hubs when 4x4 is off. As has been mentioned, these frequently cause issues, but when they're working they're nice.

The Bronco 4A Transfer case started life in the Raptor.
Link? The Raptor has dual engagement - clutch pack for 4A operation plus a locking ring for locked 4H operation. This is unique to the Raptor TC.

The 4A F-150 transfer cases all have a clutch pack only, which can overheat with extensive use and can slip if its torque rating is exceeded. The non-4A transfer cases just have a locking ring so there's never any slip.

The info in this thread on the Bronco's 4A case made no mention of dual engagement style like the Raptor:

Four Wheel Drive High Range

In this mode the clutch is essentially locked. This would lock the front and rear driveshafts together giving the vehicle maximum traction. It is a similar mode to the ESOF system 4WD high (4H) mode
 

MNbronco

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The modern equivalent of disengaging the hubs is disengaging the hubs. F-150s have had vacuum hubs for decades and the latest generation swapped to electric actuation, but they still disconnect the hubs when 4x4 is off. As has been mentioned, these frequently cause issues, but when they're working they're nice.



Link? The Raptor has dual engagement - clutch pack for 4A operation plus a locking ring for locked 4H operation. This is unique to the Raptor TC.

The 4A F-150 transfer cases all have a clutch pack only, which can overheat with extensive use and can slip if its torque rating is exceeded. The non-4A transfer cases just have a locking ring so there's never any slip.

The info in this thread on the Bronco's 4A case made no mention of dual engagement style like the Raptor:
Raptor TC (high lock) is in f150 tremor with 402a, so not exclusive to Raptor...Just to clarify
 

RagnarKon

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The modern equivalent of disengaging the hubs is disengaging the hubs. F-150s have had vacuum hubs for decades and the latest generation swapped to electric actuation, but they still disconnect the hubs when 4x4 is off. As has been mentioned, these frequently cause issues, but when they're working they're nice.
Yeah... true, was trying to avoid the super long explanation.

You aren't going to find automatic locking hubs on modern off-road vehicles, just not reliable. On pickup trucks and especially heavy duty trucks, yes, you will still find locking hubs. But off-road vehicles have all gone to FADs or just leaving the axle in neutral in the transfer case.
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