Ford explains why no manual with 2.7L Bronco

[N3T]

Summary:

“So basically when you look at what’s going on in the marketplace with similar competitors products, the take-rates for models with manual transmissions is relatively low,”



Here’s Why The 2021 Ford Bronco 2.7L EcoBoost V6 Won’t Be Paired With A Manual Transmission

September 23, 2020 by Ford Authority

When the 2021 Ford Bronco was revealed to the world just a couple of months ago, people really only had three complaints about it. Firstly, they weren’t happy that Ford wasn’t planning on offering it with a V8, nor the fact that they couldn’t get FoMoCo’s new seven-speed manual transmission with the Sasquatch Package. Lastly, buyers seeking to pair the manual transmission with the more powerful Ford 2.7L EcoBoost V6 were out of luck, as it’s only available with the Blue Oval’s 2.3L EcoBoost I-4.

Ford has since corrected one of those “oversights,” as it just announced today that it would indeed offer the new Bronco with both the Sasquatch Package and manual transmission. However, it doesn’t look like Ford is going to change course and offer its new manual gearbox with the 2.7L EcoBoost V6 – at least for now. Recently, we had the chance to speak with Bronco Chief Engineer Eric Loeffler, who explained why FoMoCo chose not to go this route.

“So basically when you look at what’s going on in the marketplace with similar competitors products, the take-rates for models with manual transmissions is relatively low,” Loeffler explained to Ford Authority executive editor, Alex Luft. “So what we wanted to do is to provide it to the traditional user that wants the manual transmission and wants to do things that are very technical that are afforded by the manual.”

“The beauty of the product is that it still allows those who want to do it the old-fashioned way to do it, and also someone who’s a novice to let them try the technologies that we offer, you can do either in any one of our products,” Loeffler continued. “The manual in the 2.3 was paired up with what someone would want to do in the rock-crawling world, and that creeper gear is fantastic, so it’s well-tailored to that engine and that particular application.”

That means for now, Ford Bronco buyers who want a manual transmission will be stuck with one choice – Ford’s 2.3L EcoBoost I-4, which is projected to produce 270 horsepower and 310 pound-feet of torque, though The Blue Oval’s 10-speed automatic transmission is also available with the four-cylinder. Ford’s 2.7L EcoBoost V6 is projected to have an output of 310 horsepower and 400 pound-feet of torque in the new Bronco, but is only available with the 10-speed automatic gearbox for now.

However, Loeffler also admitted that Ford has not completely shut the door on the idea of offering Bronco 2.7L EcoBoost V6 models with the seven-speed manual transmission at some point in the future. “Well, never say never…it’s something we usually don’t really talk about – what we will do in the future,” Loeffler said. “But we’re a company that sells products, so if customers start asking for it, we’ll end up having to consider it.”

Thanks for posting.

In case anyone from Ford cares:

I’d jump from a Big Bend to a Wildtrak if I could get a manual with the 2.7L. If you don’t want my money, fine. Doesn’t bother me any ..

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[Rocketeer Rick]

But that cost wouldn't be as drastic as making a whole new transmission at the request of buyers, the transmission exists already it's going to be put into production, I don't think it would require such an enormous amount of money to bolt it to the 2.7 and send it out to the test track. If there really is a mechanical or engineering issue, like the clutch slips and gets roasted when it's in the crawl gear on the 35's because it's too much torque and would need a whole new clutch to work with the 2.7, than I would be at peace with that. But for the only reason they are stating themselves is that not enough people buy it is their reason than that's a bit annoying and sounds like the accountants are making the decision for the people. Once again maybe the take rate is so low because it's not offered or hard to come by. I wanted the manual but at the same time I know I would always desire the 2.7 so I'm going to get the 2.7 with the auto, not because I prefer the auto but because that's the only option I have to get the engine I want. What would impress me and make me more loyal of a customer is to see a company actually take a risk rather than let accounts and computer algorithms make the decisions for them. That's not pioneering or being a trailblazer, that's maintaining the status quo.

You can argue chicken or egg all you want, but the fact is that most people can't be bothered to shift for themselves, and as a result, the options to do so have deteriorated.

Also, if reports about the 7-speed are correct, then it isn't simply a matter of slapping the transmission to the 2.7L and giving it a whirl. If the bellhousing is integrated into the trans case, then a whole new transmission casing has to be designed, tooled up, and yes, tested. Transmission cases are generally extremely expensive to tool, BTW.

Even if much of the design is carry-over from the 2.3L transmission, there are still increased torque loads going through it, and it will require a full repeat of all validation testing. So, yeah, the costs add up quickly despite what you might guess. I'll reiterate - if the ROI isn't worthwhile, they aren't going to do it. That's just the nature of modern automotive manufacturing. Cars are incredibly complex to develop and produce, so OEMs don't add more complication than needed, certainly not when there's little in it for them. I wish it were different, but here we are...

 

[rapidredbronco2021]

No shit the manual transmission take rate is low when you don't offer it

Automakers don't offer manuals with desirable options or top engine options, so people don't buy them because they are not willing to sacrifice everything to have a manual. I like how they cite "competitors" for their decision. The Wrangler is the only competitor that offers a manual transmission, but they only offer it with 1/3 engine options.

The other part of the problem is when dealers won't stock manual transmissions, and the vast majority of people don't special order their cars; they buy what's on the lot. So if dealers don't stock any manual transmission vehicles, then people don't buy them even if they would have preferred to have a manual due to economic reasons or driving preference. My local Ford dealer that has almost 500 new Fords on the lot didn't have a single manual transmission on the lot when I checked their inventory a couple years ago when they were still selling Fiestas and Focuses. That includes about 40-50 Mustangs that were on the lot. I checked again the other day, and guess what, still not a single manual transmission Mustang. My mother is thinking about replacing her 2006 Honda CRV (5 speed manual that she had to buy new from another dealer 225 miles away), but wants another manual transmission crossover. The only option is the Jeep Compass. There wasn't a dealer within 1,000 miles that had a manual transmission Compass on the lot. She isn't going to buy something she can't even test drive.

I personally would be ecstatic if Ford would offer the 2.7L with the 7 speed manual. I am a manual transmission die hard, and honestly, the 7 speed manual is the part of the Bronco that has me the most excited.

You have a point it depends on the area and population that buys from those dealers. I mean there are dealers that will sell the hot stuff like Escape, F150, etc. But some dealers will sell more manual Mustangs than others, just like dealers selling more cars that others.

I will be getting my Bronco with a manual because I want to hopefully see Ford offer one with a bigger engine.

 

[N3T]

Yeah that's what happens when you consistently restrict it to the less desirable options.

So much this.

As a manual buyer I’m locked into cloth or vinyl. If I want a lux pkg I can’t get anything other than BL. And I can almost guarantee you that either High or Lux pkg is going to tie me to a 2.7L auto. This is how options are tied together on the Ranger & F-150. Thus creating the circular logic loop every marketing idiot feeds on.

Manuals are deemed ‘low rent’ and marketing gurus tell each other that BMW & Porsche are aberrations. It’s incestuous, circular logic.

 

[N3T]

But 5% of a vehicle that makes 200k a year is still 10k a year. And when manual is only an option on 1 of 3 engines for the wrangler I’d say 10k a year is actually pretty good. More than the first edition broncos in one year, and still sells that many every year. More than the take rate of a mustang gt500 since majority of mustangs sold are the base model smallest engine.

Exactly. If $$ is the problem then charge me more for the 2.7L with a manual just coz I’m one of 50 ppl who order it. It’s fine. Anyone who wants a simple but rarely selected option like a block heater from the factory pays way more than the $3.50 it costs to install one but ppl still do it & they still offed it. Why can’t manuals be in the same league - a boutique item?

 

[bbqbronco]

I'm hopeful that if enough people buy the manual in the Bronco, Ford will see that people will buy manuals and add a manual to the 2.7L or add some other V6 with a manual. But take rates for all manufacturing companies that offer a manual, the Hyundai Venue for the first year had a manual and they all ready announced it will no longer be offered. I know it's no sports car but it was a new vehicle with a manual. Even BMW is struggling to get people to by their cars with manuals.

Getting an auto myself but I understand why it sucks. Make the auto standard and the manual an option across all trims! Sadly

 

[kodiakisland]

Your excited about the mansquatch and it sounds like many others are as well and that's great. If that's what you really wanted I'm happy for you. But would Ford have made that available without the "complainers"? If we don't make our issues known then they don't at least have the opportunity to fix the problem.
And the take rate argument never made sense to me either. What about the offer rate? A quick look at the Jeep dealers around me shows 4 manuals available. That's the 1 major Jeep dealer with 3 locations in Montana and also includes all Jeep dealers from Montana all the way thru North Idaho and to Spokane Washington. Considering most buy right off the lot, of course the take rate will be incredibly low if the offer rate is that low.

Yeah, I’m happy and would probably still get the 2.3 even if the 2.7 was an option, and yes I wish it was an option. It’s not though, so take rate will be put up or shut up. You want the manual or not. If enough of us take the 2.3 manual, we might get the 2.7 manual option. If people flake out and don’t get the 2.3 manual, you can forget the 2.7 manual. I’m taking what they’re giving instead of shopping elsewhere.

Im not worried about the 2.3 though because proper gearing is more important than displacement. I’ve driven a properly geared 4cyl Tacoma long enough, plus an older Dodge Powerwagon that was 150hp but could pull stumps.

It’s up to you though, be part of the take rate, or work against it. It’s OK if you don’t get the manual, but then don’t complain later if the option is not expanded.

 

[rapidredbronco2021]

Getting an auto myself but I understand why it sucks. Make the auto standard and the manual an option across all trims! Sadly

I don't mind that manual is the standard transmission for the 2.3L (not including the Outer Banks), meaning you don't have option the manual which will maybe help with sales. I'd pay the money if I had to option the manual with the Bronco because I want the manual. But making the auto standard and manual an option won't help manual sales when the Bronco is out.

But I'd bet there will be more people how reserved, order a manual compared to people going to a dealer after it's out looking for a manual.

 

[xenolon]

“So basically when you look at what’s going on in the marketplace with similar competitors products, the take-rates for models with manual transmissions is relatively low,” Loeffler explained to Ford Authority executive editor, Alex Luft. “So what we wanted to do is to provide it to the traditional user that wants the manual transmission and wants to do things that are very technical that are afforded by the manual.”​

​

“The beauty of the product is that it still allows those who want to do it the old-fashioned way to do it, and also someone who’s a novice to let them try the technologies that we offer, you can do either in any one of our products,” Loeffler continued. “The manual in the 2.3 was paired up with what someone would want to do in the rock-crawling world, and that creeper gear is fantastic, so it’s well-tailored to that engine and that particular application.”​

That's some corporate word salad.

Also I call BS. If you're expecting to sell less manuals, you're worried about margins, and you expect manual buyers to be enthusiasts, why not offer the engine option more suited to enthusiast pursuits?

What about the 2.3 is better suited to being mated to a manual?

 

[N3T]

So basically the same reason I couldnt get a 2 door Fiesta ST or Focus ST even though the sold em in Europe. Myself and 7 other people would buy em.

There's a pretty simple solution to the take rate thing. Just offer the option, dealerships probably won't purchase them but those who do want it can order it from the factory. I really don't see how it would be that hard to swap it into the assembly line since other broncos are going to have it. But also maybe the "take rate" is so low since it's just hard to find one.

Here’s where I have heartburn with the “take rate” argument:

No one seems to want to admit that the Bronco pricing is completely arbitrary and solely based on what people are willing to pay - not what it costs to offer. Let me explain.

The lowest cost Bronco combines two automotive anomalies in one vehicle. It’s a two door SUV and it has a manual. Based on Jeep‘s “take rates” these are the two rarest options selected. Fully 95% of all Jeep buyers get a four door SUV. Also, fully 95% of all Jeep buyers buy an automatic trans.

Using the “take rate” logic this SHOULD make a two door manual Bronco insanely expensive because they have to do all of that massive investment for the tiny minority that will buy it. The ROI has to be horrible. But, is it expensive? Nah, it’s the cheapest Bronco. Why is that? Because Ford perceives the manual as being low rent and doesn’t belong with high trim options. And that’s all there is to it.

So all this ‘logic’ and ‘numbers’ and whatevers is nonsense. Ford didn’t want to pair the 2.7L with a manual because they don’t perceive it to have any cache. Manuals are for ppl that sit in the cheap seats only according to them. Ugh. Drives me nuts.

 

[rapidredbronco2021]

It’s up to you though, be part of the take rate, or work against it. It’s OK if you don’t get the manual, but then don’t complain later if the option is not expanded.

People need to be apart of the manual movement by buying a manual. You can't complain about there being no manuals, when one is offered on the vehicle and you don't get it. Ford and the rest of the auto manufactures are trying to make money. If they don't think it will sell they won't keep it around.

No shame to the auto or 2.7L people, I wanted the 2.7L but since the manual isn't an option for it I'm not getting it. Enough people buy it in the F150 so I know it won't go anywhere. But the manual could stay or go within a few years depending on take rates.

 

[rapidredbronco2021]

So basically the same reason I couldnt get a 2 door Fiesta ST or Focus ST even though the sold em in Europe. Myself and 7 other people would buy em.

What kills me is that Ford offers a auto in the Focus ST in Europe but didn't here for some unknown reason. They probably would've should more STs here in the states with the auto. Manuals are purchased at a much higher rate in Europe compared to the US but they offered an auto there and not here.

I'm with you I would of taken a second look at the Fiesta if there was a two door option.

 

[Brokennose]

We did some research on this a few years back. I think it less than 15% of all vehicles produced globally in 2015 were manuals.

Sad reality is that it is totally a niche market these days with populations becoming increasingly sedentary, and lazy. People want push button, on demand, disposable, minimal effort returns. Which I think is why we love to rib the auto drivers of the world.

Automatics certainly have their upsides. Why are virtually all military vehicles autos?? Shifting and shooting gets complicated.

 

[rapidredbronco2021]

So all this ‘logic’ and ‘numbers’ and whatevers is nonsense. Ford didn’t want to pair the 2.7L with a manual because they don’t perceive it to have any cache. Manuals are for ppl that sit in the cheap seats only according to them. Ugh. Drives me nuts.

I agree it's the same reason Ford only gave the 2.3L as the only option for the Ranger. It's the cache of being the only 4 banger in the segment and out preforming the class with it.

 

[Go_Galt]

People need to be apart of the manual movement by buying a manual.

This.

If even a small percentage of the people that cried on the internet about manuals dying put their money where their mouths are, I don't suspect manuals would be dying at this rate.

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