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broncoskip

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70th place with a stock drivetrain.

Ford could have put a bronco body on a super truck and tried to win the whole thing, but that's not what they were trying to do. They succeeded in proving the capability of the drivetrain that your bronco will have stock.

Look at the overall list and see what that Bronco finished ahead of, and see what didn't finish.
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Jetboy

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Let me be clear, I would have preferred to see the Bronco compete in totally stock form like the Toyotas you mentioned or the Raptor previously. I think that would be more relevant and impressive. But to say this is a race chassis is an overstatement, or can certainly be misinterpreted from what they really built. Under that fiberglass body and roll cage is a Bronco frame, and the control arms (longer than stock) are attached to OEM hardpoints. This alone is a serous limitation if you are trying to Build a "race chassis" akin to the trophy or hammer trucks. That limits wheel travel and wheel path and constrains the shape and interface of the control arms themselves. The Bronco R is about testing more than a stock engine and transmission, aside from the rear axle housing and extended front half shafts you also have a stock driveline/joints, front axle, steering gear (as we saw that was pushed to its limit). They kept enough stock its wonder why they didn't just keep it all stock.

The Bronco R is way under built by "Race built" standards, and overbuilt from stock enough to be not entirely useful for comparison, and setting expectations all over the place. I don't have a good answer for why they did it this way.
I guess my main point is questioning what ford is testing here. Are they really testing that has any relevance to the production model? I'm not seeing much. I mean - technically you could say that Ford is testing Mustang parts in NASCAR, but I'm not sure how much of that testing really applies. This is something a little closer to the real bronco - but not a lot.

You can't test a highly modified frame and consider it a "test" of the frame. You can't test long travel control arms and really consider the forces or loading to be the same as stock arms with stock bushings and suspension. The forces and loading are totally different. You really can't even genuinely say you're testing the engine or transmission in a real configuration when they're not enclosed in the same engine bay, subject to the same heat sinks, surrounded by the same engine bay components and subjecting those to the same vibrations, heat, etc. And where someone like Honda trying to race its stock class ridgeline could test a lot of durability things - where does the chassis develop cracks, where to pinch welds separate, how do the doors seal keep the dirt out with all the chassis flex, does the top stay on? etc. Ford can't really take anything away from this other than engine performance in a non-standard vehicle. I don't think they could really even take away shock tuning specs or suspension geometry tweaks that improve performance. That says to me at least that this was a marketing team who needed a photo of a Bronco looking vehicle crossing the finish line for advertising. Not so much a test of the vehicle for any R&D value.

Honda ended up giving up on the stock truck and put skins on a Class 6 truck. This feels kinda like ford giving up on stock class after the Raptor problems and doing the same thing - just choosing a class with historically no competitors and getting surprised when Glickenhaus showed up with a more serious entry.

I think it's great that Ford is playing in the Baja. But if a privateer team from Utah can go win stock full size class in the Baja 1000 year after year in a 10 year old Landcruiser, why can't Ford go compete in a Bronco? If a stock class bronco can't finish - maybe that's a problem. I would think it would be pretty well suited for the race. My money would be on the Bronco to beat a Raptor in the 1000. Maybe that's what they wanted to avoid?
 
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guernsej

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This is something a little closer to the real bronco - but not a lot.
After seeing the Warthog test mules, I wouldn't be surprised if their suspension geometry and frame modifications are similar to Bronco R. Less travel and less kit at each corner for sure, but close enough that they're logging relevant data on suspension and frame loading.
 

Jetboy

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After seeing the Warthog test mules, I wouldn't be surprised if their suspension geometry and frame modifications are similar to Bronco R. Less travel and less kit at each corner for sure, but close enough that they're logging relevant data on suspension and frame loading.
Maybe that's possible. Not really sure how they could run that track width legally - can't run tires outside the fenders and still remain FMVSS compliant. But maybe they'd come with some sort of super wide fender setup? Or possibly they're going to sell a non-street legal version? Ford has been doing a lot of great things in my book as far as the Bronco goes. It wouldn't be impossible to see something like a Bronco Speed class come out (like a bronco version of Jeep Speed if that wasn't obvious).

To me - it sure looks from the outside like race chassis. If anyone has a photo of the chassis without the skins, i'm curious what it looks like. This:
Ford Bronco Ford Bronco R Finishes 2020 Baja 1000 baja-1000-13

Ford Bronco Ford Bronco R Finishes 2020 Baja 1000 Bronco-off-roading-SUV-interior

Is a long way from a typical production test truck like this:
Ford Bronco Ford Bronco R Finishes 2020 Baja 1000 nada-la-paz-4runner-6-w-front-suspension-final-

Ford Bronco Ford Bronco R Finishes 2020 Baja 1000 2015-Toyota-Tundra-TRD-Pro-Baja-1000-31-1600x1066


Weird side note - the limit chain is pretty odd. I've always been curious why they used a chain on that setup instead of a normal limit strap. Home Depot was the only place open the night before the race?
 
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imthewalruz

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It's pretty embarrassing Ford couldn't do better. They're one of the biggest carmakers in the world and they're getting smoked by Glickenhaus?

Means zilch when it comes down to how the production Bronco's will turn out, but still a black eye.
 

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TeocaliMG

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It sure looks from the outside like race chassis built for class 2. This:

Is a long way from a typical production test truck like this:
From the standpoint of added dampers and added tubes all over the place for roll cage and said dampers, I agree.

But from the standpoint of the control arm hardpoints, and the coilover tower you could argue this is MORE stock than that "production" test rig.

From an engineering standpoint they kept some of the most critical hardware/geometry bone stock but then threw who knows how many thousands of dollars at upgraded/extra dampers, bump stops, tube reinforcement, arms/knuckles etc, and ditched the whole body/interior while they were at it. Such that at a glance one would expect this to behave like a quarter million dollar rear engine Glickenhaus Boot. It LOOKS like it should be punching above its weight, but its not and it cant. It really sells short the good engineering this has for a stock, sub 100k (let alone sub 250k) rig, because it looks almost like a dang trophy truck. It's honestly the worst position they could have put themselves in (ok exaggeration, at least they finished!). They could have gutted the whole thing and built a Ford GT-esk build to go for the crown, or kept it stock and try to brag to everyone about how "it survived the baja 1000 and costs less than 60k and will be at the hammers next week" or whatever lol.

From a media standpoint they screwed up as well. To the average Joe, they don't see the Bronco when they see this. It just isn't properly represented. The only value here is for some of the engineering DV they can gather, which is no doubt useful, but is it worth building something that looks like its supposed to win, and really never could? Hmmm.

I share your frustration, I am just trying to be clear that a lot of very important stuff here is stock, and that is ultimately why it would never win. (unless a bunch of other OEMs decided to throw big arms, shocks and hubs at 60k front engine trucks/suvs and race class 2)
 

Toastedtostito

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70 overall, and second in class is noice with basically the same engine and trans we will be purchasing
 

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It's pretty embarrassing Ford couldn't do better. They're one of the biggest carmakers in the world and they're getting smoked by Glickenhaus?

Means zilch when it comes down to how the production Bronco's will turn out, but still a black eye.
Article from Proud American publication:

“The Boot beat the Bronco in Class 2 by over five hours in the 1000-mile race and finished in 42nd place overall ahead of the Ford in 70th.....

The Boot is priced slightly higher than the production Bronco that goes on sale next June, to say the least. Prices for the Boot start at $258,750 for a two-door and $287,500 for a four-door 460 hp model”.

$$ wins races. If you see the video of the boot passing the Bronco there is big $ is the suspension. The boot made it look easy Floating over the whoops. Way more body movement for the Bronco and looked like a rough ride. Bronco was only a quarter million $ less expensive.

 

Jim Glickenhaus

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The race Bronco we beat by 5 hours and 15 minutes was a ground up build by a major Baja race and engineering team. Ford spent way more on developing their race Bronco than we did on our race Boot and tried to sell other racers a race Bronco for 500K which is 100K more than our race Boot which as raced is road legal which the race Bronco is not.. Ford was unable to sell any race Broncos. We sold several during the race for next year and every road Boot we can make through 2022. For the money the road Bronco is fantastic. For 500K the race Bronco is not. We'll be back next year I doubt the race Bronco will. More information, photos and video in our press release.
https://glickenhausracing.com/campa...gOnpJSfq8hTLmqZeflDRg5kcKbEXB9j05ISuBj8Y2jJAq
 

Ricepuddin

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The race Bronco we beat by 5 hours and 15 minutes was a ground up build by a major Baja race and engineering team. Ford spent way more on developing their race Bronco than we did on our race Boot and tried to sell other racers a race Bronco for 500K which is 100K more than our race Boot which as raced is road legal which the race Bronco is not.. Ford was unable to sell any race Broncos. We sold several during the race for next year and every road Boot we can make through 2022. For the money the road Bronco is fantastic. For 500K the race Bronco is not. We'll be back next year I doubt the race Bronco will. More information, photos and video in our press release.
https://glickenhausracing.com/campa...gOnpJSfq8hTLmqZeflDRg5kcKbEXB9j05ISuBj8Y2jJAq
You just crushed a lot of fan boy hearts.

Or they'll be here in the am to keyboard rage. Either way thanks for proving my point and congratulations ( assuming you actually are who you say you are).
 
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Jim Glickenhaus

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You just crushed a lot of fan boy hearts.

Or they'll be here in the am to keyboard rage. Either way thanks for pricing my point and congratulations ( assuming you actually are who you say you are).
Thanks. I am.
 

Jim Glickenhaus

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To be honest you come across as a really smug and salty. Congrats on the win but did you make an account just to to talk shit?
No.
What ricepuddin understood and said.
 

Rydfree

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Glickenhaus on a production Ford Bronco forum , lol.
 

guernsej

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To be honest you come across as a really smug and salty. Congrats on the win but did you make an account just to to talk shit?
He's been on the forum for a while, saying the same thing long before the race started. It's true and I don't think it's shit talking at all - for whatever reason, Ford chose to build an R that never really had a chance.
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