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Here’s why you won’t see an electric Bronco

Pancho Kornwallace

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The dictionary I have shows LBJ's picture right next to Socialism...in case you're confused about the concept of confiscating someone's resource simply to give it to another person. Of course, LBJ must's been a big Marx fan...and I don't mean Groucho

Nope. Sorry, that is propaganda, not reality.

As @Drex pointed out there is a precise definition.

Here is the definition (notice there is not LBJ picture there):
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

"Any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods."

By the actual definition, Social Security, Single Payer Healthcare, Police, Fire, Military, Schools, Roads and Bridges, Borders (where private property is seized for the collective good) and our electric grid are NOT Socialist, even though in every case, we all need to pay into a government regulated "collective" service.
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boxwood

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also peeps, we have done a relatively good job of keeping the politics out of this thread and keeping it from getting closed, so lets stay on topic
 

wvmtneer

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@wvmtneer

@boxwood is right:

I looked it up:
Fact: 88% of Texas electricity is supplied by natural gas or coal power plants.

Texas is having trouble, mostly because they opted out of the National Grid system.
Good for them (they thought) to bypass Federal regulations.
Bad for them NOW however.

It was their choice to do this, and it has nothing directly to do with frozen wind turbines.
I'd love to see data that suggest something contrary to what I and others have posted with regards to renewables not being any major contributing factor to the issue in texas.

You know, something useful, instead of a meme based in an alternate reality. The memes aren't doing much for you cause. whatever cause that may be. Unless it is just to stir things up.
+ @wvmtneer

Wind turbines are all over Western Michigan and Northern Indiana. Those states have snow like Texas just got at least 3-4 times per year (including yesterday), every year. So much for that theory.
I’m not anti EV or alterantive energy. I own plenty of EV, EV component and alternative energy stocks. Even TAN solar ETF. I know it’s the future, but it needs an improvement from today.
 

bloominguez

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Again as resident coal lover, there is way too much emphasis on gas turbines to deliver power. Most gas turbines aren’t inside of a nice building other than the small enclosure over them unless your in the deep north.
As the resident nuclear power lover (I guess, although coal gets the job done, too), I completely agree that there is too much emphasis on gas turbines to deliver power. :)

Why don't we just follow France's lead on this one? Let's skip ahead to the decade where we finally go with the safest solution that can actually meet our power needs.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesc...athprint-a-price-always-paid/?sh=461b16b8709b
https://ourworldindata.org/safest-sources-of-energy (I don't think it's fair to include deaths from a fundamentally flawed design like Chernobyl, by the way.)
 

boxwood

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Okay,
But all of what you quoted had to do with misinformation about failure of wind in Texas.
So it's hard not to think you are anti renewable, with memes about failures of wind in Texas when wind wasn't even the failure in Texas.

Why post a complete falsehood. The wind was never planned to be at a capacity to be relied on. It has actually been overperforming at times during the storm. and it was the lack in planned production from all types of thermal plants that failed to meet the majority of capacity needs.

So why spread that info? especially if you are invested in them

I’m not anti EV or alterantive energy. I own plenty of EV, EV component and alternative energy stocks. Even TAN solar ETF. I know it’s the future, but it needs an improvement from today.
 

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NCOBX

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As the resident nuclear power lover (I guess, although coal gets the job done, too), I completely agree that there is too much emphasis on gas turbines to deliver power. :)

Why don't we just follow France's lead on this one? Let's skip ahead to the decade where we finally go with the safest solution that can actually meet our power needs.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesc...athprint-a-price-always-paid/?sh=461b16b8709b
https://ourworldindata.org/safest-sources-of-energy (I don't think it's fair to include deaths from a fundamentally flawed design like Chernobyl, by the way.)
No disagreement here, 21st century power plants are few in the US. With that said good luck buying a decent steam turbine that isn’t a pile of cheap engineered to a spec pile of crap.

Although I think your source is poorly written. Big difference in cleanliness of a US coal plant with scrubbers and a Chinese coal plant with no emissions equipment. Not even close. The US coal plants might as well be gas fired as far as cleanliness.
 

bloominguez

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No disagreement here, 21st century power plants are few in the US. With that said good luck buying a decent steam turbine that isn’t a pile of cheap engineered to a spec pile of crap.

Although I think your source is poorly written. Big difference in cleanliness of a US coal plant with scrubbers and a Chinese coal plant with no emissions equipment. Not even close. The US coal plants might as well be gas fired as far as cleanliness.
I don't disagree at all. I was just pulling the first couple links that came up because I was lazy. Incidentally, one of my uncles built and managed coal plants his whole career. He'd say the same thing.
 

Pancho Kornwallace

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Okay,
But all of what you quoted had to do with misinformation about failure of wind in Texas.
So it's hard not to think you are anti renewable, with memes about failures of wind in Texas when wind wasn't even the failure in Texas.

Why post a complete falsehood. The wind was never planned to be at a capacity to be relied on. It has actually been overperforming at times during the storm. and it was the lack in planned production from all types of thermal plants that failed to meet the majority of capacity needs.

So why spread that info? especially if you are invested in them
Shorting stocks?
 

boxwood

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LOL, when you get a notification you've been mentioned, and the post can no longer be found.
Gotta act fast i suppose.
 

OX1

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Yeah...I don't even take a shit without checking with the WHO first
Yeah, if we are now punching up the "WHO" as an "accurate" reference on something, I'm trotting out this grid article. Forget all the other issues with electric cars, the grids themselves are nowhere near ready for electric everything, even if we had no electric cars.

Just last fall we were out almost 3 days again. Not that uncommon around here. And while I'm rural for NJ, I'm "city" compared to many places

https://www.revolver.news/2021/02/texass-power-grid-disaster-is-only-the-beginning/
 

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Carolina Jim

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the grids themselves are nowhere near ready for electric everything, even if we had no electric cars.
Biggest problem with our grid is what you might call the, "Wizzard of OZ" complex. Its all done by the man no one has ever seen, behind a curtain we're not allowed to peek behind. Consider:

Ownership: 100% private

Administration:
  • FERC
  • NERC X 8
  • NARUC X 50

59 regulators....What could possibly go wrong???
 

boxwood

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Yeah, if we are now punching up the "WHO" as an "accurate" reference on something, I'm trotting out this grid article. Forget all the other issues with electric cars, the grids themselves are nowhere near ready for electric everything, even if we had no electric cars.

Just last fall we were out almost 3 days again. Not that uncommon around here. And while I'm rural for NJ, I'm "city" compared to many places

https://www.revolver.news/2021/02/texass-power-grid-disaster-is-only-the-beginning/
Yep, We definitely need to put money into infrastructure! Grid, Transportation...a lot!
 

boxwood

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Biggest problem with our grid is what you might call the, "Wizzard of OZ" complex. Its all done by the man no one has ever seen, behind a curtain we're not allowed to peek behind. Consider:

Ownership: 100% private

Administration:
  • FERC
  • NERC X 8
  • NARUC X 50

59 regulators....What could possibly go wrong???
I mean Texas has little regulation, no? So it's not the only problem, right?
Hypothetically speaking if Texas had been part of the federally regulated sector they could have "weathered this storm" ?

Not saying regulation is great or anything, Although I do think it has its place. Food safety, Drug safety, etc

You know, like most things in life, everything in moderation. Complexity doesn't help anything.
 

Pancho Kornwallace

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Yeah, if we are now punching up the "WHO" as an "accurate" reference on something, I'm trotting out this grid article. Forget all the other issues with electric cars, the grids themselves are nowhere near ready for electric everything, even if we had no electric cars.

Just last fall we were out almost 3 days again. Not that uncommon around here. And while I'm rural for NJ, I'm "city" compared to many places

https://www.revolver.news/2021/02/texass-power-grid-disaster-is-only-the-beginning/
Most places in the US that care about infrastructure and don't mind sharing with other states and having federal regulations have a very strong electricity delivery system.

In fact, there is an over capacity problem. Most plants have to stay open 24/7 even though the demand for electricity goes way down over night. Plugging-in cars over night offers the perfect load balancing opportunity for "over built" power plants.

Conversely, I saw two videos this morning from Mike Levine of Super Duty trucks pulling 18 wheelers stuck in the ice/snow in Texas. I would imagine the yestertech method of transporting gasoline via massive tanker trucks has been stopped completely until the roads get better. Much harder and more inefficient than keeping power lines working (in most cases).

Also, WHO is the best source for credible, peer reviewed data, calculated using a common methodology. I invite you to use credible data showing why it is a bad source.
 
 


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