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See how everyone takes things. Now when people read this they think it is about the Warthog because it has 37s

I saw NO mention of the Warthog just how to fit 37s on your 21 Broncos.

This is why I tend not to post info in here because people only read half of it and then don t even understand half of what they did read. And then try to call you out on it and it is now even what was said.

Take it from a guy who does this for a living .

...... this stuff ain't easy.
No offense meant Baus but you said you don't tend to post info in here? You have over 2k messages posted. What are you not telling us????
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the poacher

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I dont understand how the factory would not consider this!!
Anyway, I plan to stick with the stock 32's but intend to change a +12 offset wheel .... do you think i will still rub the flares in offroad situations?
That is the proverbial question. Until we get owners installing your wants, we won't know for sure. In my opinion, I do not think you will rub on the flare. However, I could be wrong. I wish you success.
 

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I learned a ton about IFS and Ryan from 4WP, in both his video(s) and his conversations here, really opened my eyes to some things.

I come from the jeep side where a "budget lift" is a regular and appropriate things.... with a budget lift you basically just put some spacers on top of the suspension to give you some quick increased clearance for larger tires.

The problem is that with an IFS, when you add lift in that way, without taking other things into account, you reach the limits of the front axles and CV joint angles.

The weird thing is that you can "safely" budget lift the lower trims but not the upper trims...

1623679399246.png


Ryan was able to shed some light on something that didn't make intuitive sense to me at first but it an important point:

On the Base-OB the shocks themselves don't have a very large range of motion. On the yellow bilsteins (BL and Sas), the travel is so much greater and you're already lifted, that they basically already allow for near maximum droop as far as the CVs are concerned.

What that means is that counterintuitively, it's easier to "cheaply" lift a lower trim Bronco than an upper trim....

The lower trim shocks don't allow the wheels to drop enough to create a problem if you add some spacers to raise the vehicle, so you can get a base up to squatch height pretty easy with a budget boost. On the upper trims if you add more lift with spacers the wheels can drop so far that you bind the axles and can create serious problems.

Ryan's point was that if you want to eventually get to a 3" lift for 37s... even if it's only a small increase over your BL or Sas height, you're already at the end of the CV capability. Starting with Sas doesn't mean you get to save money by just adding cheap spacers for the 37" clearance, you have to swap out coilovers and UCA anyway... So, if your plan is 37s, it may make more sense to *not* sas from the factory since you're going to have to replace those components anyway.

Granted, the Bilsteins, with their longer range of travel mean better articulation off road, but if your goal is to just lift your Bronco fast and cheap, it could potentially make more sense to go with a lower trim and add spacers.

(Of course, if you want to lift your BL or Sas, and aren't worried about damage that may occur if you were to hang one of your front wheels in the air... a spacer may be worth it to you... or if you're worried about damage but don't mind limiting droop, you could put limiter straps in or something... I'm sure we'll see plenty of different solutions once Broncos become more prolific.)

The more I think about this more clear (I think) things become to me.

Basically, here's the breakdown as I see it:

- If all you want is lift to clear 35" on the street, it's almost certainly cheaper to get a Base-OB and add a budget boost.
- If you want maximum off-road capability for 33-35" it's probably cheaper to Sas.
- If you want maximum off-road capability for 37" it's cheaper to go base and upgrade coilovers and UCA.


And here's the link to the video where Ryan very quickly talks about how a "level lift" (budget boost / spacer) wont work because of CV angles on the "Yellow Bilstein" (BL, SAS) equipped Broncos:

https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/thre...-37”-tires-on-2021-bronco-4wp-explains.16623/
Newbie here:

you addressed a 3” lift added to Sasquatch, but what are your thoughts on 2” lift to Sasquatch?

What would the wear and tear be like for a bronco that will primarily stay on pavement? I like budget options, but do not want to prematurely being replacing parts.

thank you!
 

BAUS67

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No offense meant Baus but you said you don't tend to post info in here? You have over 2k messages posted. What are you not telling us????
Not that I am not telling, have more than likely already said. or when I do say, three posts later the same question pops up. So I tend not to post because it seems I am wasting my time.


Ok so I have posted in the forum many times but many don't read everything or skip over stuff. Or when they read things they don't comprehend what it is they read. So yes a have 2K in posts but I have been posting here since Jan of 2020 and read threads in here since oct of 19 Waiting patiently for my 21 Bronco. Which ironically was initially a '20 bronco.

So here goes.

I work in 4X4 shop i do this stuff everyday, all day, 365 days a year. I live, breath, and eat modifying vehicles.

As I said in my post NO mention of Warthog just how to fit 37's on a Bronco.

So the Bronco is very similar architecture to a Raptor. Raptor is design to have 35's on it from the factory. In more simple terms the wheel opening is designed to house 35's. This is different than most trucks. On the other trucks you have to lift it and push the tire outward to fit the larger tires on to keep them clear of the suspension and fenders, hence 0 or negative offset. ( offset and backspace are not the same but that is another story). As I stated before this stuff is not easy !!!!!!!!!

So as Ryan (from 4WP) stated stay away from negative offset wheels. The bronco is designed to house 35's no need to push them out further. That said as you increase tire width you need to keep the sidewall from contacting the upper ball joint, hence the Squatch offset is +30 and the option beadlock is +55. 285 is not as wide as 315.

As far as suspension goes, most trucks take either a 2" or 2.5" spacer to level them you have to measure each application to know what fits best. ( i.e. spring rate) They make 3" but that will get you in trouble but creating a geometry problem therefor anything over 2.5 lift will require upper control arms to correct the geometry. ( sound familiar, Ryan again) The Bronco is different it may only require 1' or maybe 1.25" or even 1.5" to level it depending on the springs but the looks of the new info we have.

Not sure how technical you want me to get. I can make your head spin with all the contributing factors at play here and for some they don't understand and it just tends to confuse them.

If anyone wants more explanation or wants to correct me feel free. I will try my best but one ting to ALWAYS remember with me I don't have redneck in my name for no reason. I can be quite blunt sometimes and people may take it the wrong way. I am NOT PC, I just tell it like it is.

One thing to remember also is the Bronco is the only off road SUV to run coilovers from the factory ( that I know of ), which means the coil spring is over the shock, on all 4 corners. This is mostly done on the front (IFS) and then just a coil spring with a separate shock on the rear. Or like a Jeep a coil spring and separate shock on all 4 corners. 4 coilovers improve performance and is a smaller package than being separate. You can control the suspension better with coilovers.
 
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ZackDanger

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Not in the least.

The post you linked to is my go-to when discussing tire width and wheel offsets to avoid interference with suspension components, specifically the UCA.

This thread is discussing tire diameter and lift heights to avoid interference with body and frame components.

That thread and this thread are complimentary, not adversarial.
 

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Not in the least.

The post you linked to is my go-to when discussing tire width and wheel offsets to avoid interference with suspension components, specifically the UCA.

This thread is discussing tire diameter and lift heights to avoid interference with body and frame components.

That thread and this thread are complimentary, not adversarial.

Amen brother !!!!!........see my post above yours. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 

BAUS67

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2" up means lift and 2" out could also mean offset not necessarily longer control arms

Has anyone seen pictures f the Bronco without the fenders on there is ALOT of room in there.

Forgive me I am on and vaca and on my work laptop and do not have access to my photo album.
 

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Newbie here:

you addressed a 3” lift added to Sasquatch, but what are your thoughts on 2” lift to Sasquatch?

What would the wear and tear be like for a bronco that will primarily stay on pavement? I like budget options, but do not want to prematurely being replacing parts.

thank you!
Discussion of lift height, like 3” and 2”, is in reference to increase from base height. So a Sasquatch already being 1.1” lift, you would only need 2 additional inches to achieve the 3” needed to cleanly run 37” tires.

Currently the highest lift i believe advertised for the bronco is the adjustable 3” 4wp lift. A “3 inch over sas” is really a 4” lift, and you’re probably getting into territory where you’ll need portal axles or to drop the from differential…

If you’re just lifting, and doing it smartly (such as coilovers and UCAs for the 3” lift), there’s not any more wear and tear than before… assuming all the angles remain in spec. (You do start encountering other problems around changes to center of gravity location and increased moment arm…)

When you start doing things cheaply, and running components towards the outside of their intended use range, that’s when you get shortened lift.

Additionally, messing with wheel offset (like people going crazy negative offset for aesthetic reasons) puts weird forces on steering components, also shortening life.

I would say this: you either pay for it now or you pay for it later… there’s a reason why the 4wp 3” lift is so expensive.

You could lift your bronco for the price of 8 hockey pucks… but you’re going to end up paying the difference later in CV joints. You may not explode something dramatically on the trail… but you’ll be in the shop sooner.

All that is to say: We really don’t have any data on this yet… so we should listen to the experts who know the field.
 
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Raptor.Tremor.Bronco

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Isn’t that the point of the 2” lift?
Well what kind of lift are we talking about? Puck style junk? Replacement coil springs? Perch collars? Full Coilover replacements? Only the pucks change how far the suspension cycles (because they ruin the geometry) Any real suspension that retains factory upward travel would likely not allow 37s to fit simply because the tire is too big to tuck in the fender at full compression resulting in massive damage, whether or not this is the case is what I want to find out and I sure as hell am not going to be the one to destroy my bronco trying to fit them. This has been an ongoing argument for over 10 years in the raptor community because people have different ideas of what "fits".
 

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Well what kind of lift are we talking about? Puck style junk? Replacement coil springs? Perch collars? Full Coilover replacements? Only the pucks change how far the suspension cycles (because they ruin the geometry) Any real suspension that retains factory upward travel would likely not allow 37s to fit simply because the tire is too big to tuck in the fender at full compression resulting in massive damage, whether or not this is the case is what I want to find out and I sure as hell am not going to be the one to destroy my bronco trying to fit them. This has been an ongoing argument for over 10 years in the raptor community because people have different ideas of what "fits".
This thread is literally about what fits, based on the extensive evidence gathered thus far. 37” fit in the wheel wheels with a 3” lift and approx +33mm offset wheels.

But the 1.1” lift found on Sas is at the end of the Bilstein/UCA/CV effective range, so if you want to go higher than that, you need new coilovers and UCAs.

Ryan from 4wp worked hard on the science of the Bronco lift, and I trust the conclusions he came to… he has the math to back it up. He has posted some videos on the forum with pages of technical discussions following. He brings the receipts.

Ford Bronco The Definitive Guide to 2021+ Bronco Ride & Lift Heights with Wheel & Tire Sizes A9C705FE-ADD9-4B68-8891-CE45E6ABFED0


(It’s worth noting that the 4wp rig with 37’s also has the fender flares removed… and some minor trimming in the wheel well.)



Though, depending on your style, you can contrast that with Loren Healey’s position on running 37”s, which can be summarized as (and I’m paraphrasing here): “2 inches up, 2 inches out, and f*ckin send it!”
 

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Yeah. Good point...

The spindle on the Sas shocks is longer than the BL... which would decrease compression (and prevent rubbing on the 35")... but you would probably also have to decrease length of travel but a commensurate amount to prevent CV binding?

The fact it's a a longer spindle helps explain why early on sometimes people said it was a 10mm bump stop and others said it was a 10mm lift... truth was it was both.

So to get a Sas look out of BL, you would need a 10mm spacer, but then you would need to limit downward travel, so you could do straps or something?

That is if you want maximum usage... if you aren't ever going to hang a wheel out off the ground, then you'd probably be fine cheating it a little.

Enlighten me zach, I have not heard the spindle difference before. You surf here more than I do, I just have not seen this info yet.
 

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ZackDanger

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BAUS67

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Ok so maybe I misunderstood the "spindle" you refer to, I took as the knuckle.

Ford Bronco The Definitive Guide to 2021+ Bronco Ride & Lift Heights with Wheel & Tire Sizes 1623724567719


or maybe more complete to help clarify.......

Ford Bronco The Definitive Guide to 2021+ Bronco Ride & Lift Heights with Wheel & Tire Sizes 1623724318724


............. the part that the upper and lower control arms attach to that hold the wheel. I was under the impression that these were all the same, just the "coilover" was different.

in car application it is normally called a spindle but most trucks it s call a knuckle.

Ford Bronco The Definitive Guide to 2021+ Bronco Ride & Lift Heights with Wheel & Tire Sizes 1623724511002


spindle pic above for reference, normally found in a car or RWD ..... see the difference ?????


Edit:

Sorry buddy I don't have time to read 10 pages to see if what I described here is in all 10 pages.
 

ZackDanger

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Ok so maybe I misunderstood the "spindle" you refer to, I took as the knuckle.

1623724567719.png


or maybe more complete to help clarify.......

1623724318724.png


............. the part that the upper and lower control arms attach to that hold the wheel. I was under the impression that these were all the same, just the "coilover" was different.

in car application it is normally called a spindle but most trucks it s call a knuckle.

1623724511002.png


spindle pic above for reference, normally found in a car or RWD ..... see the difference ?????


Edit:

Sorry buddy I don't have time to read 10 pages to see if what I described here is in all 10 pages.
Yeah. I actually posted a little bit after that and corrected myself because I realized that while perhaps the word could be technically correct for that sleek, slender, sexy rod… using the term “spindle” in that post, in the context of discussing off roader geometry, would easily be misinterpreted.

;)
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