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Lakelife36

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Kind of expected though right? A SAS Badlands is not exactly geared to drag race plus it's carrying a lot of extra weight, 35" tires, at elevation, etc....

I will say that mild hybrid in the Jeep makes a huge difference in this kind of irrelevant application
It's not a mild hybrid it's a full-on PHEV. Instant torque from stop.
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Panaran

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This test was a mile above sea level. That that altitude, the engine was making around 240-250hp at the crank. Probably around 210hp at the wheels going through the 10spd. That's not much for a 5200lb car, of course the Jeep with the assistance of an electric motor that's not affected by altitude is going to out perform it. All gas motors perform like dogshit at elevation unless they're specifically tuned for it, this drag race is a worthless benchmark to anyone not living in the mountains.
 

RG7

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Was the Bronco in sport mode? Not sure if FE’s have that or not. On boosted vehicles especially the modes can change the way and time in which power is delivered. Specifically, it may ramp up boost earlier in the rev range, or just deliver the full amount of boost period. Not sure on the Bronco but in “normal mode” some forced induction platforms won’t even deliver full boost at all.

Edit: to clarify where I’m coming from, I’m not in denial about the purpose of this vehicle, but the numbers don’t square. At altitude I would expect the Jeep with electric assist to win, but not by that much. 410 pound feet of tq is a lot for any vehicle. Shouldn’t feel as slow as some reviewers/forum members that have gone on test drives have mentioned. On the other hand, the CA owner who took delivery of a black badlands the other day said the Bronco feels as quick as his SQ5. That’s a completely different reaction than “can’t get out of its own way”. SQ5’s are quick vehicles.

Ideal situation is to put several on a dyno to see if they’re way off claimed HP/TQ. Other solution is Dragy times but I doubt many in the group have Dragy.
 
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Nickp

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The Bronco just is. Not. Fast.
Fast is subjective. I have driven a 2.0 Rubicon Wrangler(7.6 0-60 according to motor trend) and a 2 door First Edition Bronco within 24 hours of each other, the Bronco felt a bit faster according to my “butt dyno” and I can guarantee it wasn’t slower. This was not even in sport mode. Being at 5k elevation isn’t going to drop the 0-60 time almost 3 seconds, so something is up.
 

foremi

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This test was a mile above sea level. That that altitude, the engine was making around 240-250hp at the crank. Probably around 210hp at the wheels going through the 10spd. That's not much for a 5200lb car, of course the Jeep with the assistance of an electric motor that's not affected by altitude is going to out perform it. All gas motors perform like dogshit at elevation unless they're specifically tuned for it, this drag race is a worthless benchmark to anyone not living in the mountains.
Turbo's eliminate most power loss at higher altitudes. You may notice more turbo lag because they need to work harder/spin faster to make the boost but you don't see the massive loss you would on an NA engine.
 

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Panaran

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Turbo's eliminate most power loss at higher altitudes. You may notice more turbo lag because they need to work harder/spin faster to make the boost but you don't see the massive loss you would on an NA engine.
They fair better than NA engines, but they still experience a significant amount of loss. The turbos on the 2.7 have a capacity limit for boost, they can't just spin faster and make up for all of it. The OEM tune will also limit this as well. You can setup a turbo'd engine to run better at a specific altitude and fair much better, but the OEM Bronco tune out of the box wont make up for much of the loss. It will most likely just adjust the amount of fuel to keep the AFR within spec to keep the engine getting damaged.
 

bigtexyahoocom

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Fast is subjective. I have driven a 2.0 Rubicon Wrangler(7.6 0-60 according to motor trend) and a 2 door First Edition Bronco within 24 hours of each other, the Bronco felt a bit faster according to my “butt dyno” and I can guarantee it wasn’t slower. This was not even in sport mode. Being at 5k elevation isn’t going to drop the 0-60 time almost 3 seconds, so something is up.
Despite the drag race posed by this video, your subjective feel of your 2.0 Rubicon has literally no bearing on the speed of the Bronco. It’s not fast. The 2.0 Rubicon isn’t fast either. I’ve driven one. It’s not fast. Maybe it’s a little faster than the Bronco, maybe it isn’t. But it’s not fast, and neither is the Bronco. And fast actually is not subjective. It’s based on distance over time and distance over time squared, which is famously non-subjective math. “Feel” is irrelevant, both because it is a subjective measure of an objective reality and because you aren’t buying and driving both cars at the same time.

You have to remember that 0-60 times printed in magazines and published by manufacturers are based on optimal conditions, on wide open roads at neutral elevation, and usually using driver aids that 99.999% of owners will not be using in everyday life. My wife owns a Scat Pack Challenger. It’s a 4.2 second car. The fastest we’ve gotten it to in everyday use is just under 6 seconds because we aren’t trying to use line lock and launch control and starting it at 5200 RPM. Car and Driver started their Bronco in 2nd gear to get the time they got. What you see them doing here is far closer to the actual every day use case than the printed optimal 0-60 times, which don’t ever get achieved in normal use. Just let it go. The car isn’t fast. Neither is the Wrangler. The only reason that upsets some people is that A. They have to have the Bronco beat the Jeep in every possible metric (something that was not going to and will not ever happen) because they’re insecure and have an unhealthy fixation on a competitor and B. That people years ago on this forum started talking trash about how the Bronco was going to SMOKE every version of the Wrangler in all circumstances based on nothing but the engine choices before they even knew about curb weight or even front axle type for that matter and now can’t swallow the predictions they made based on incomplete data.
 

Natai

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Couple questions - that really should have been addressed up front:
  • What size tires are on the 4XE?
  • What's the weight comparison between this 4XE and the Bronco FE?
  • How long has the Bronco been driven (trans still learning)?
  • What modes are each vehicle in?
  • Why wouldn't you expect a hybrid powertrain to have better off-the-line acceleration?
  • Why are people even concerned about drag times on an off-road vehicle?
Realistically, with these vehicles and trims, you don't even need to drive them (or watch the video) to know the results beforehand. Only thing you might get out of it is actual times, and with all of the X factors involved these times border on meaningless. (And really, what relevance is there in times sprinting off the line for this type of vehicle?)
 

foremi

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They fair better than NA engines, but they still experience a significant amount of loss. The turbos on the 2.7 have a capacity limit for boost, they can't just spin faster and make up for all of it. The OEM tune will also limit this as well. You can setup a turbo'd engine to run better at a specific altitude and fair much better, but the OEM Bronco tune out of the box wont make up for much of the loss. It will most likely just adjust the amount of fuel to keep the AFR within spec to keep the engine getting damaged.
The OE turbos should have enough excess capacity in them to handle 5kft without getting so far out of their efficiency curve that the IAT's start to skyrocket.
 
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Mr. Nice

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I don’t know why you’re still trying to compare a specific f-150 that was tracked who knows where to a FE bronco in a different location with a different driver and who knows all the other variables.
Maybe you should advise Motor Trend how to test their vehicles? All I was trying to point out here that a very similar truck that weighed the same, with the same motor and transmission, that has similar brick shape, trumps this Bronco. Why? I guess time will tell, not you or me...
 

bigtexyahoocom

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Maybe you should advise Motor Trend how to test their vehicles? All I was trying to point out here that a very similar truck that weighed the same, with the same motor and transmission, that has similar brick shape, trumps this Bronco. Why? I guess time will tell, not you or me...
I think the answer lies with transmission choice, gearing, axles, and tire size.
 

foremi

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Maybe you should advise Motor Trend how to test their vehicles? All I was trying to point out here that a very similar truck that weighed the same, with the same motor and transmission, that has similar brick shape, trumps this Bronco. Why? I guess time will tell, not you or me...
They are not the same. Nothing about them except the engine (which are tuned differently) is the same.
 

BFizzy

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That really makes no sense; you will never take a miata or civic rock crawling; you will never take a 2 seater on large family trips; you will never drag race in reverse....but you WILL drive the Bronco 0-60 every single day you take it on the road. Every day. That's why people look at it...it's a daily task, and people want to see how it compares to it's off road peers in performing a task that is as common as it gets for the vehicle, even if not the reason it was built, or the reason to buy it. People want to know whether it is competent in a routine task.
This is a reasonable point, but the video is comparing one of the very slowest configurations of Bronco against one of the quickest configurations of Wrangler. Others are comparing this Bronco’s time against vehicles much closer to sea level that have been launched by a pro driver with optimal conditions and controls. It’s just such a waste of time to try to draw conclusions from entirely different situations.
 

csj

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I thought the turbos made up for the altitude issue? Don't they adjust automatically based on whatever the local atmospheric pressure is? Videos like this is why I never had any interest in the larger tires, they're better for only h.d. off roading, worse for everything else.
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