Non-sas Suspension quality [question]

[Vigor]

Anybody here enough of a car enthusiast or auto mechanic to know the differences in suspensions' quality? Anyone able to go into detail how good the quality is of the stock (or non SAS) Bronco suspension kit?


Much ado about the SASQUATCH's suspension but not everyone is getting saaquatch, so its pretty rare to hear tech breakdowns of the stock Bronco

I guess I'm asking how the suspension that Ford chose for their stock Broncos compares to say its direct competitors (jeep, Defender) stock configurations.

Thanks for the thoughtful replies

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[jllanglo]

I’m interested in this as well. I currently have a Subaru Crosstrek and while the ride is smooth off-road, it’s quite easy to bottom out the suspension if you’re going even moderately fast.

I’d be curious to see how a non-Sas BD would do in comparison.

 

[mdepll]

I’m interested in this as well. I currently have a Subaru Crosstrek and while the ride is smooth off-road, it’s quite easy to bottom out the suspension if you’re going even moderately fast.

I’d be curious to see how a non-Sas BD would do in comparison.

Great question. I’m interested too !!

 

[MaverickMan]

These are the questions we need to know.

 

[goatman]

Well, when you talk about suspensions, it includes the control arms and links that locate the axles, as well as the type of springs and the shocks, and any sway bars. The control arms, links, and sway bars are the same with non-SaS and Sas. Only the coilovers, which are the springs and the shocks, are different. So, axle location and sway bar control is the same. Also, spring rates are likely very close to the same if not exactly the same for each model. So, the real difference in SaS is the position sensitive shocks and the additional 1" lift in ride height. The ride height increase is specifically to make room for the 35" tires. The position sensitive shocks should make a difference in how the Bronco feels/rides off road. The shock valving (resistance to motion) increase as the shock shaft gets closer to fully compressed or fully extended, so the vehicle can ride better going over rougher terrain.

The stock non-SaS springs and shocks are still specifically tuned to the vehicle, and the rest of the suspension is the same. While I have only driven a SaS off road, I would assume that the difference in feel and ride would mostly be noticed as you pushed the Bronco harder off road. Just driving around on dirt roads at a leisurely pace you might not feel a difference.

To be a bit more specific, the front suspension is IFS (independent front suspension) and uses upper and lower A arms (control arms) with bushings at the frame end and ball joints at the knuckle end, and the front has a sway bar (anti-roll bar). The rear is a straight axle, and it has four links (control arms) to locate the axle fore and aft, and handle axle torque, and it has a track bar to locate the axle side to side. No sway bar. All of these parts are the same, SaS or non-SaS. Then both have coilover shocks, which means the springs are mounted to the shocks, are one package. The coilover unit is bolted top and bottom, at the top of the coilover to the frame, and at the bottom of the coilover to the lower A arm in front and the axle housing in the rear. Hope this is some of the info you were looking for.

 

[andrusoid]

Well, when you talk about suspensions, it includes the control arms and links that locate the axles, as well as the type of springs and the shocks, and any sway bars. The control arms, links, and sway bars are the same with non-SaS and Sas. Only the coilovers, which are the springs and the shocks, are different. So, axle location and sway bar control is the same. Also, spring rates are likely very close to the same if not exactly the same for each model. So, the real difference in SaS is the position sensitive shocks and the additional 1" lift in ride height. The ride height increase is specifically to make room for the 35" tires. The position sensitive shocks should make a difference in how the Bronco feels/rides off road. The shock valving (resistance to motion) increase as the shock shaft gets closer to fully compressed or fully extended, so the vehicle can ride better going over rougher terrain.

The stock non-SaS springs and shocks are still specifically tuned to the vehicle, and the rest of the suspension is the same. While I have only driven a SaS off road, I would assume that the difference in feel and ride would mostly be noticed as you pushed the Bronco harder off road. Just driving around on dirt roads at a leisurely pace you might not feel a difference.

To be a bit more specific, the front suspension is IFS (independent front suspension) and uses upper and lower A arms (control arms) with bushings at the frame end and ball joints at the knuckle end, and the front has a sway bar (anti-roll bar). The rear is a straight axle, and it has four links (control arms) to locate the axle fore and aft, and handle axle torque, and it has a track bar to locate the axle side to side. No sway bar. All of these parts are the same, SaS or non-SaS. Then both have coilover shocks, which means the springs are mounted to the shocks, are one package. The coilover unit is bolted top and bottom, at the top of the coilover to the frame, and at the bottom of the coilover to the lower A arm in front and the axle housing in the rear. Hope this is some of the info you were looking for.

Yes, thanks. Great description of the suspensions. I am planning on replacing the stock suspension on my base with some takeoff Bilsteins from a Badlands. The upper control arms are included, but looks like they are not needed.

 

[Bronco1971]

Well, when you talk about suspensions, it includes the control arms and links that locate the axles, as well as the type of springs and the shocks, and any sway bars. The control arms, links, and sway bars are the same with non-SaS and Sas. Only the coilovers, which are the springs and the shocks, are different. So, axle location and sway bar control is the same. Also, spring rates are likely very close to the same if not exactly the same for each model. So, the real difference in SaS is the position sensitive shocks and the additional 1" lift in ride height. The ride height increase is specifically to make room for the 35" tires. The position sensitive shocks should make a difference in how the Bronco feels/rides off road. The shock valving (resistance to motion) increase as the shock shaft gets closer to fully compressed or fully extended, so the vehicle can ride better going over rougher terrain.

The stock non-SaS springs and shocks are still specifically tuned to the vehicle, and the rest of the suspension is the same. While I have only driven a SaS off road, I would assume that the difference in feel and ride would mostly be noticed as you pushed the Bronco harder off road. Just driving around on dirt roads at a leisurely pace you might not feel a difference.

To be a bit more specific, the front suspension is IFS (independent front suspension) and uses upper and lower A arms (control arms) with bushings at the frame end and ball joints at the knuckle end, and the front has a sway bar (anti-roll bar). The rear is a straight axle, and it has four links (control arms) to locate the axle fore and aft, and handle axle torque, and it has a track bar to locate the axle side to side. No sway bar. All of these parts are the same, SaS or non-SaS. Then both have coilover shocks, which means the springs are mounted to the shocks, are one package. The coilover unit is bolted top and bottom, at the top of the coilover to the frame, and at the bottom of the coilover to the lower A arm in front and the axle housing in the rear. Hope this is some of the info you were looking for.

I'm wondering if the springs are different between models, Sas and non Sas. Both the sprung and unsprung weight differences are not insignificant between at 32" and a 35" and Base to Wildtrak high. One of the major advantages of coilovers is the ease of changing springs and the availability of fine tuning options. Plus, with the better motion ratio compared to conventional springs going from a 250# to 275# is noticable. With the way the Bils are valved they should be adaptable across a range.

Kinda surprised that the bar is the same. I'm thinking that means the bar is really light and the majority of roll control is via the springs.

FWIW, driving on the street vs off road with the Bils, the speed and position sensitive valving is apparent.

Any chance you're aware of the anti-dive geometry? I ask because the brake dive is absolutely massive.

 

[goatman]

I'm wondering if the springs are different between models, Sas and non Sas. Both the sprung and unsprung weight differences are not insignificant between at 32" and a 35" and Base to Wildtrak high. One of the major advantages of coilovers is the ease of changing springs and the availability of fine tuning options. Plus, with the better motion ratio compared to conventional springs going from a 250# to 275# is noticable. With the way the Bils are valved they should be adaptable across a range.

Kinda surprised that the bar is the same. I'm thinking that means the bar is really light and the majority of roll control is via the springs.

FWIW, driving on the street vs off road with the Bils, the speed and position sensitive valving is apparent.

Any chance you're aware of the anti-dive geometry? I ask because the brake dive is absolutely massive.

Springs are different between models, there's a chart floating around with the various spring part numbers. Don't remember which models. Of course the springs have to be different between non-SaS and SaS because of the length (1" additional ride height), but we don't really know that for sure. Only thing we know for sure from the specs is that the BL with the Bilsteins has .8" more travel front and .4" more rear then the Base. We don't know what spring rate differences there are, and if any differences are significant...I kind of doubt it.

We don't know if the valving at ride height between stock and the PSD Bilsteins is the same or different. Are the Bilsteins softer at ride height to allow a bit more compliance off road, or are they the same as stock with just the much higher valving towards the ends of the stroke. Don't know. I've only driven a non-SaS on road and a SaS off road, so can't compare. I'm only assuming the sway bar is the same between stock and SaS because no mention of it in the specs. Only the shocks are mentioned as different.

We also don't know what spring rate the aftermarket coilovers are coming with, and with the length needed for Bronco specific shock lengths what rate choices there will be. Much to be learned and determined yet.

No idea on front end geometry. However, I assume the engineers had to strike a balance between anti-dive and articulation. Any amount of anti-dive in the A arm mounting positions would also resist articulation, as basically some of the resistance to A arm movement would be absorbed by the mounting bushings as well as the springs. I never hit the brakes hard the couple times I've driven the Bronco, so have no experience yet. Both things that would limit anti-dive, the spring rate and the arm mounting positions, would also limit articulation. Bet lots of design discussions when on around that.

 

[Spooled]

Here is that chart thanks to @North7

 

[Vigor]

I never hit the brakes hard the couple times I've driven the Bronco, so have no experience yet. Both things that would limit anti-dive

I have and there's a good amount of dive. Coming from a BMX x3 it's something to get used to. But adds to the fun factor

 

[North7]

Here is more info:

The Definitive Guide to 2021+ Bronco Ride & Lift Heights with Wheel & Tire Sizes

BILSTEIN ESCV Bronco suspension / shocks explained - "End Stop Control Valve" Dampers (Bronco HOSS Suspension w/ Position Sensitive Dampers)

New Bilstein ESCV Coilover Article Design & Ride Information

 

[goatman]

I have and there's a good amount of dive. Coming from a BMX x3 it's something to get used to. But adds to the fun factor

Yeah, I guess! One car minimizes suspension travel and the other maximizes suspension travel.

 

[Bronco1971]

Wow, so the springs are the same PN between models and 2D / 4D. That surprises me. I'll have to drive a 4D since I've only been in a 2D. I don't have much time right now, but I'd like to get more in depth on this. At a minimum, I'd bet the brake dive on a 4D is much less than the 2D due to increased wheelbase.

 

[kodiakisland]

Wow, so the springs are the same PN between models and 2D / 4D. That surprises me. I'll have to drive a 4D since I've only been in a 2D. I don't have much time right now, but I'd like to get more in depth on this. At a minimum, I'd bet the brake dive on a 4D is much less than the 2D due to increased wheelbase.

Did you see the * ?

 

[Bronco1971]

Did you see the * ?

Whoops! Sorry.

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