why are we blaming Ford and not the dealers?

[Bison]

Back of the napkin math.

Idk how many reservations does Granger have? I thought I read 1400? Maybe 100 sold this year? I thought I saw 300 allocations next year. So that leaves 1100.

Chapman 500? Going with 20% allocated, that's 100. Leaving 400, so now we're up to 1500.

No clue on Stevens. I thought someone said 1000. So again 20%. 200 sold. 800 leftover. So now that's 2300 total.

So you got me. Maybe I under exaggerated and it's more than a few hundred. But still not a lot in the bigger count of all orders.

I also gotta figure a lot getting pushed will transfer or cancel those orders. So maybe an even 2000?

Still not a lot when you're talking 150k orders. 1.4%.

Man after doing this math a bit more, some might not see a bronco till 2024! That's rediculous. And boy would I be pissed with my dealer.

I think your napkin math is wrong. Your forgetting about every little dealer across America not just those 3. Some may not even have an order and won’t be affected but I am sure there are quite of few that will. It would take a lot of napkins to do that math. And boy am I pissed at Ford.

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[Bronc-O]

ok, 1st, sorry for the long post.

2nd, I've seen this forum blowing up over the weekend over this whole allocation ordeal, but I'd like to apply some logic to it, and not just point fingers. I know this is probably going to stir up some emotions, but I'm going to play a little devil's advocate.

Here we go!

I don't understand why people are blaming this all on Ford and not the dealers.

Hear me out.

Dealers are in the business of making money. Right? These 'deals' aren't out of the goodness of their hearts. They're making money. I don't know for fact, but at least in my simple mind, if I sell 10 broncos at $1000 profit, or if I sell 30 broncos at $500 profit, I'm making more money by sheer volume. (And these dealers increased by much more than triple from what I've read) Nevermind whatever else they're making on whatever deals they have with whatever banks on doing financing through them. Also selling trade-ins, extended warranties, insurance, etc...

Dealers were aware of allocations. This isn't new to them. They tried gaming the system and Ford didn't play.

The dealerships used people and passed it off as 'deals'. And some people probably saved money, it was a two way street for a bit. But now dealerships are trying to blame Ford. Bc now they're probably not going to make the margins they were forecasting. And they're trying to use this forum to get people on their side.

plus how about the innocent local, original reservation holder, at these dealers? They could've been 15 or 20 in line with like a Sept 2020 reservation, but bc of everyone flocking they got pushed into what could now be 2023. But no one cares about them, right? Just as long as you were getting a good deal. That's all that mattered.

if everyone ordered from their local dealer and other's didn't boost their numbers, allocations wouldn't even be a problem. In fact, Ford has over 3000 dealerships, I'm willing to bet at the other 3000 dealerships, allocation isn't a problem and they'll fill every order they have next year. (quick math, 150,000 orders into 3000 dealerships in only 50 per)(yes I know not all things are created equal, but it gives you an idea, or should how the distribution organically falls into place)

If you're super upset about possibly getting pushed into 2023, then just change your order to a different dealer. I'm sure once most folks (not all, before anyone starts attacking) actually did some math on how much they're saving compared to how much they're spending to drive half way across the country, they'll realize the savings wasn't there to begin with.

Or maybe all this is just the cynic in me.

But if I were one of those people, I'd be pissed at the dealer who promised me something they can't deliver on. The dealerships own the relationship with Ford. Not us. Maybe they should've ran their business model by Ford first to see if i they'd be able to meet demand? Before they went making promises they can't keep.

we were all quick to blame Ford for their supplier Webasto. Shouldn't we then blame the dealers for their supplier Ford?

I've seen the statement 'ford is catering to the big dealers'. Why wouldn't they? Those are the dealers that sell the most Fords year over year. And last time I checked Ford is in the business of selling cars... After all this reservation craziness dies down, these small dealers will go back to selling like 50 Broncos a year, if that. Why should Ford change their business model to cater to a small few that exploited a loophole? Again, allocations aren't new, and they exist for a reason.

Now, with that said, Ford isn't totally innocent here. They tried the Tesla sales model, but didn't account for the dealer loophole and didn't expect some dealerships to do what they're doing. So while a lot on here think it's a big deal, it's maybe, what? 1% (if that) of all orders that will fall into 2023. You're pissed, but Ford isn't losing any sleep over it.

And hey, good for these dealers. They saw a loophole and tried to exploit it to make money. But it caught up to them... let's not make them into heroes, and hold them accountable.

Or hey, maybe I'm wrong and these dealerships did run their business model by Ford and Ford blessed it, and now Ford is going back on their word. However, I doubt that'll be the case. If it is, then I'll gladly eat crow. but none of us will ever really know if that's the truth or not.

Good luck getting much support on this. Some members are being blocked from posts that don't support the mainstream thinking. It's sad that we come here for good info and now, they want to censor us because some opinions don't agree with the popular members thinking. How can you achieve balance if all opinions are not considered? Nobody is asking for agreement, just look at all sides. Censor as they may, the truth will always be the truth.

 

[Atomicdog]

How can you achieve balance if all opinions are not considered?

Simply because not all opinions are equally valid.

 

[Dads_bronze_bronco]

One thing to remember is people on a forum always represent the minority lol. I tell people I am on a car forum and they are like a what?

I think the main problem is Ford has constantly moved the goal posts. At no point did Granger tell people you will 100% be getting your vehicle on X date. I feel they have been very up front about allocations, and at the time time stamp and possible option constraints and that would all play a roll in when a vehicle gets built. When they announced the October special, they straight up told people it might not show up until end of MY 22. And that was based on information that they had that was accurate at the time.

Now where I feel people are getting mad, is there are some very early reservation holders that still aren't scheduled might not get built until 2023. Now some of that is because of constraints, the hard top fiasco, not even attempting MOD tops among other things. So that's a part where people can blame Ford. But then those people that got bumped because of those, might also get bumped out even further now because Ford changed how the allocation system works. While now some of the larger dealers with more allocations are going to be able to order stock units for the lot when Ford themselves said that wouldn't happen before all reservations are filled.

I also think where people are getting mad is in the last few weeks of model year 21 scheduling it sure seemed random as hell as to what got scheduled

Seemed to me it was most of the remaining FEs, some two doors (and maybe 4 dr MICs but didn’t see any myself) through early 7/14, and buildable soft tops based on what was left in the parts bin.

 

[69351windsor]

Only problem with that theory is that all the extra from mark up goes in the dealers pocket not fords. Dealer sells a bronco for 20K over that extra 20k goes to the dealer not to ford

Yes, true, that we know of - but could be in the form of kick-backs? other ass kissing (literally)...who knows....why would Ford cave to the cheater dealers then - what sway do they have over corporate I wonder....if it were only about selling a lot of Broncos they should be delighted with Granger....Its such a cluster fuck the whole thing & stinks like full porto potty ripening in the summer sun for months.

 

[Grooticus]

Why are people on this board making threads kissing Ford's ass when at the end of the day the customer will be the one who suffers from this?

Ford were the ones that changes their allocation system between model years. Ford were the ones that said the would follow reservation timestamps.

Why is it so difficult to follow timestamp order if the parts are available? Why do people here support dealers getting stock units ahead of customers that reserved OVER ONE YEAR AGO?

Because they sell cars most likely

 

[Civkik]

Ford did a great job. Pretty happy really.

 

[Grooticus]

but it's only a few dealerships that exploited the loophole.

For the 3000+ other dealerships, they'll fill all their orders. It's just the ones that exploited the loophole that are getting hurt by this. and that's such a tiny percentage when you account for all orders.

do you have any reason to think this is true? I hope your right, I’m roughly 35th on my dealers list but there are very small and based on these metrics might get 2 per month.
that’s horseshit, just build them in order FFS

 

[PowPow]

Good luck getting much support on this. Some members are being blocked from posts that don't support the mainstream thinking. It's sad that we come here for good info and now, they want to censor us because some opinions don't agree with the popular members thinking. How can you achieve balance if all opinions are not considered? Nobody is asking for agreement, just look at all sides. Censor as they may, the truth will always be the truth.

exactly. And so far so good. I was expecting to take a lot more heat. But besides a few flexing their internet muscles, it's been mostly a decent debate.

I was just trying to open a few minds.

if you want to blame Ford, blame Ford. If you want to blame the dealer, blame the dealer. I don't really care. Blaming ain't gonna do shit anyway. Not much is going to change bc a few hundred people are upset over getting their Bronco under MSPR. (just not when they want it)

I don't think either are squeaky clean here. both need to be accountable.

 

[Bronc-O]

Me after reading the stupid original post and getting ready to reply



Me after reading the comments

Yup, taking time to try to understand the whole picture before lashing out in anger has it's benefits.

 

[69351windsor]

Corporate caved to the cheater dealers -- it should have been fill the damn reservations (quit taking them) & then fill dealers lots with stock AFTERWARD!! But the y want to gouge right now instead.

 

[Bronc-O]

Simply because not all opinions are equally valid.

I didn't say all opinions are of equal value, but that they need to be heard and considered. Just because you don't agree with someone's position on a topic doesn't mean all feel as you do. You might as well have said because yours is right and theirs is wrong.

 

[Atomicdog]

I didn't say all opinions are of equal value, but that they need to be heard and considered. Just because you don't agree with someone's position on a topic doesn't mean all feel as you do. You might as well have said because yours is right and theirs is wrong.

That isn't even close to what I said but feel free to spin it that way.

 

[Daktari]

It is unfathomable to most people how you are defending being lied to repeatedly by a company because you feel (reasons) are an excuse.

maybe because Ford never lied to me? The reservation was a spot in line and clearly stated it does not guarantee you a vehicle - ever. Also stated to figure out pricing with your select dealer.
Yes, they said orders before stock builds, before they knew about the roof issues. They can't just stop the line because they don't have a buildable order at hand. And so far all that speculation that "the fat cats will get hundreds of stock models" is just internet speculation here, as far I I know it's not even clear how this allocation formula will be applied. And allocations will change from month to month, not a "in 2022 you get x Broncos" in. Nobody, not even Ford knows how many units each dealer will get by end of the year. It's good to give Ford feedback and who knows if they might come up with something that more or less works for all.

Anyway, just the way I see it, I don't feel I was lied to, my dealer communicated great with me when necessary and did what I asked them to do.

I'm not "defending" Ford and I'm certainly not a fan boy, this is my first ever Ford and first ever American car. Maybe I was just lucky that my dealer is great and honest and everything worked out. And I'm sorry for those stuck on dirt mountain and now in this uncertainty with the discount dealers, but in no way do I excuse those dealers taking in thousands of orders without a plan on how to get the units delivered. They know about allocations, they deal with that every day with every model and every brand they sell, it's nothing new. Limited supply needs to be spread out over 3000+ dealers. Maybe Ford should have somehow put a stop to how many reservations each dealer can take, meaning Ford maybe should have allocated the units up front, but I don't know if that's even possible. And the dealers probably should have stopped taking reservations once the number vastly exceeded any allocations they've ever seen? Both made mistakes here IMO.

Well, enough from me, just the way I see it, nobody has to agree with me on anything, but I can voice my opinion just like anyone else can. Just tired of the constant negativity against Ford on a Ford vehicle forum, seems a bit silly to me.

I do hope you get your order delivered as soon as possible, it is worth the wait and I wish you and everybody else good luck.

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