Mike Levine saying outright he does NOT care about Granger/Chapman/SAC

[indio22]

Ordered yesterday, have a vin today....

Yep in the end some people get too caught up in the vehicle image. Rather than the vehicle as a tool to accomplish things.

That Jeep will have you, friends and family driving around with top down/doors off fun, and exploring the great outdoors off-road. You could be in the mountains taking in the views and remote camping in that Jeep (or some other capable vehicle), while people are sitting on the couch for a year (or more) because they can only be happy doing that in a Bronco.

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[WCP-82]

I don't think SAC fits in the same category as Granger dealing with this mess. They have just been added as a part of the small dealer price examples. I do not know about Chapman. I am at SAC.

SAC had a little over 300 orders as of December 2020. That number isn't much more than numbers I have seen from larger dealers not offering the big price breaks. While following the SAC thread, John at SAC commented that they aren't actually that small of a dealership. If I remember correctly he said they are number one in WV for fleet sales. John at SAC isn't too worried about his allocations for 2022. He is not sure how it will work out but doesn't anticipate losing many.

I think SAC customers will be fine. Most of his reservations were early timestamps. I'm at #104/109 with a 7/14 @1600 timestamp. All of their initial allocations were going to 7/13 or 7/14 holders. Out of his Dec 2020, 300 reservations a third were allocated. I believe they have also taken delivery of 50+ units with another 15 or so being built. That is a 65% build rate on allocations. I haven't seen any dealer numbers close to this. It doesn't seem to me that Ford has a problem with SAC.

 

[7722 Bronco]

And likely if other folks had a similar dealer relationship, or could easily have identify one, they would have gone that route.

When buying a new car last year, there were various hijinks, including trying to slip a $400 vin etching fee at the very last minute, which I caught before signing the sales contract.

Sketchy stuff like that, I'm sure you can see that not everyone is in your situation, and that drove some of the movement to dealers that offered less drama.

I can definitely see that. I feel fortunate that I have the relationship I have with them. Regular vehicles I buy $300 over invoice, specialty vehicles, my GT500 and this Bronco, are at MSRP, no drama, both parties are happy.

 

[andrusoid]

The main reason I went with the Granger offer was that it was a no B.S. price. Every time I've bought a vehicle new, I look online, figure out what the solid low price people offer (typically in the neighborhood of invoice) and the first dealer that just says "yep, here it is" gets my business.

Now, I live in NM and both of our local Ford dealers are absolutely awful. One of them when I called about a Bronco said that they were planning to do a minimum of 10k ADM on all reservation holders. At least they were up front. There is one decent dealer, but they've been hit hard by the chip shortage, and aren't considered "volume dealer," so my guess is they are somewhat in the same boat as Granger. Long story short, I'm not buying a Bronco local.

Ford thinks by screwing Granger/SAC/etc. they can drive people to their buddies that own the big dealerships. Instead, what it is going to do is drive people to Jeep, or in my case I will probably decide to just stick with my 4runner until someone makes me go electric.

To me, this just fundamentally undermines that Ford dealers suck because Ford lets them. When one tries to behave better, they get punished.

I had one of the Granger 2k off deals and finally came to my senses. How is a small dealer in a small market going to handle hundreds (guessing, but, yeah) of reservations and deliver? Don't be making saints out of them. Yes, they are upfront about wanting to grow their dealership, but at some point you have to tell people, uh, don't think we can get you a vehicle this year.

 

[Bronco21fan]

Dude, you have a lot of catching up to do.

People did do their research. I personally called every Ford dealership within 100 miles. None of them would discuss pricing. Only one even returned my phone call. That's why I and many others on this forum went with small dealerships that actually put their deal in writing, returned our calls and emails, and answered all our questions about the Bronco and the process.

So you landed on the unicorn big dealership that isn't charging you a five-figure markup and has the allocation to get you a Bronco in a timely manner. Good for you. Try not to hurt yourself reaching around to pat yourself on the back. But your gloating and "I told you so" attitude is not welcome here. It's really very childish. There are better ways to make yourself feel good about yourself, and they are not at the cost of others' displeasure. Maybe pour yourself a shot and go watch some porn.

 

[Panaran]

I'm new to following this, just checking to see if I understand the gist of this. Ford had set allocations for dealers based on a lot of factors initially. Dealerships then started making really great offers that attracted a shit ton of converted orders. Ford did not anticipate this huge consolidation of conversions at these dealerships, and have had to change their allocation numbers accordingly.

So basically, Ford is saying they were forced to change their initial allocation/reservation fulfilment plan because of what the dealerships tactics to take more orders than they were originally allocated. Now reservation holders for smaller dealerships are getting screwed? Is this directionally correct?

This makes sense tho. Back in March I was asking my dealer how many allocations they had and where I was in line. He said he had X (I forgot exactly) number of allocations, but that number could increase if their dealership submitted enough orders. So it seems like this has been Fords plan for a long time, this isn't new. Dealers have known since the beginning that they could get more allocations adjusted in their favor if they submit enough orders beyond their limits.

 

[OmahaKevin]

I can get a V8 Jeep for what local dealers want for a 4cyl Bronco. Got my Bronco through Granger and it'll be built 11/15 but Ford is absolutely mangling this launch.

You can't swing at the king of the segment and then fail on deliveries, promised, and the value proposition. Smaller dealers are now going to charge ADM more openly knowing they'll never fill their reservations. Bigger dealers can charge all the ADM they want because they'll have an endless supply of retail orders and lot stock orders.

Go respond to @mrlevine on Twitter with this info. The world needs to hear this.

 

[TalexBrizzley]

My dealer told me to go buy a Jeep. I think they are as frustrated as we are.

For the money of a loaded up bronco, why not just get one of these?

Damn that defender is sexy.

I don't want to move my Bronco res to another dealer, but may have to to get my Bronco this decade. After playing with their B&P, I can order a loaded 4 door Willys with a $4,000 one-touch power top for the price of a non-squatch 2dr Badlands... and I just might.

 

[rutherk1]

I don't want to move my Bronco res to another dealer, but may have to to get my Bronco this decade. After playing with their B&P, I can order a loaded 4 door Willys with a $4,000 one-touch power top for the price of a non-squatch 2dr Badlands... and I just might.

Honestly, unless you are stuck on Ford as a brand, I imagine you would have just as much fun with it.

 

[hemiblas]

Go respond to @mrlevine on Twitter with this info. The world needs to hear this.

Agreed, we all need to be on twitter and remind him of who his customers are.

 

[gimlithepirate]

I had one of the Granger 2k off deals and finally came to my senses. How is a small dealer in a small market going to handle hundreds (guessing, but, yeah) of reservations and deliver? Don't be making saints out of them. Yes, they are upfront about wanting to grow their dealership, but at some point you have to tell people, uh, don't think we can get you a vehicle this year.

My situation is unique in that I'm perfectly happy to wait until MY23/24. I saw my reservation as an option to buy a bronco for 2k under invoice at some point in the future. I was never under any impression I'd get one before late 22. My calculus was get in 22, daily drive for 5 years, then make it an offroader. At that point my 4runner would be 20 years old, which might be an issue.

My only frustration is I'm guessing ford will stop doing price protection for MY23.

 

[mmorgan]

I'm not surprised. I dealt with the same kind of people in my second life. When they get that high in the food chain they couldn't care less about the customer. It also gives us a snapshot of the entire Ford leadership. Very sad, because at one time I was one of Ford's biggest Fanboys. Man do I feel the fool now.

Was no fanboy but thought Ford would be good to their word.
And the fact Ford changed the allocation system for what seems to be Grangers transgressions is even harder to understand. Levine associates 2% of sales to a dealer who abused the system. That's a sad overreaction. Especially considering the negative taste left in our mouths.
Also ignoring that many if us chose to by out of state because of the miserable experience offered locally. And end the end will not be saving a substantial amount of cash. Certainly not enough to offset all the frustration.
I'm still in with Granger but if this drags on I will buy something other than a Ford.

 

[ATLColonial]

I just want to add that we did in fact know about allocations. I remember it being a huge thing around here why allocations existed for reservation holders.

My dealer refused to tell me where I stood in their allocated Broncos for 2021. I'm an early day 3 reservation holder. I was pretty nervous I wouldn't make it.
The only reason my blend date is today is because I switched to soft top. Otherwise I'm sure I wouldn't have made my relatively small dealers allocation.

I don't think that other guy was bragging. I think @Dads_bronze_bronco was just being pragmatic. It absolutely was a risk going with these small dealers who historically couldn't fulfill a third of these orders (and that's me being generous in the ratio). I don't think Ford is in the right. But taking a step back and knowing the facts and history (allocation was always a 'thing')... you can see how going with these smaller dealers was a gamble

I think we all learned about allocations on this site, very few of us came in here having any idea about how this system worked. My point was that we had no way of knowing if or how those would change over time, and I find the "I told you so" attitude, when there was no way for us to know, pretty obnoxious and unnecessary.

You're right that it was always a gamble, but choosing any dealer was a gamble. We all had the same facts, and we made different bets. Granger and others got a ton of allocations because of how they played the system last year, meaning that bigger dealerships got less and those on here who willing to pay more for a bigger dealer with potentially more allocations lost out. We expected that the allocation was going to stay the same year over year until the reservations were fulfilled (based on what Ford repeatedly promised), which turned out not to be true, and those who were disadvantaged last year now are sitting in a better position for next year.

We also can't pretend this happened in a vacuum, or that this was at all a "normal" car buying experience. Folks made their decision based on statements made by Ford, and I imagine this would have all gone very differently if they hadn't done the reservation system or stated multiple times that reservations would be fulfilled prior to dealer stock. We should be shaming Ford for not being honest, not the people who relied on their statements.

 

[RBF 1401]

I personally decided between the SAC and Chapman deals, and my local dealer at MSRP when I ordered in March. Both SAC and Chapman were up front when asked about where I would be in their allotment. Outside the bubble for 2021 (with a mid day two reservation). I chose MSRP at my local dealer where I was in the first third, and still am rolling to 2022. The primary reason I made that choice was 2022 allotments vs dealer stock, and dealing with a dealer three to four states away who also has a local market to serve, were risks.

Anyone in the Granger / Chapman / SAC predicament today, especially those outside the original allotment, took a gamble to get a few thousand off. They knew Ford was fluid and unpredictable. They knew dealers and markets were pressuring Ford to swing the balance. And they knew all bets were off after the 2021 known state. Or they should have.

It's that simple.

Why do people keep insisting that people placed orders with SAC and Stephens and Granger and Chapmam Horsham and Kearny Mesa to "get a few thousand off" when that is not the case.

The majority of people are just like me, my local dealer, the one where Ford automatically put my reservation WOULDN'T EVEN TALK TO ME. Even when I showed up in person, they just kept giving me the brush off.

Me: I've got a reservation for a Bronco, who do I speak to about this?

Them: You can't order Broncos yet, and we really aren't sure who is going to do that.

Me (different day question to a different person): I've got some questions about buying a Bronco, can you help me?

Them: The 1970 Bronco is not for sale, it's just a display.

Me: No, I have a Bronco reserved here and want to ask a couple of questions.

Nope, couldn't help me.

So I called Albert and he gave me his cell number and wrote down times for my lunch and planning period so he wouldn't call while I was teaching class...

...even before I gave them a reservation!

Mike Levine apparently has no clue. Maybe he can give us a list of honest dealers with higher allocation than reservations. Or even a list of honest dealers... because the forum compiled this information and these are the very dealers Ford is refusing to give adequate allocation.

And by the way... It's not a good business model to openly admit you are only going to help 98% of your customers.

 

[TalexBrizzley]

Honestly, unless you are stuck on Ford as a brand, I imagine you would have just as much fun with it.

Agreed. These are first world problems, but the way we've been jerked around and the blatant middle finger to the small dealers with this Levine tweet, I'm willing to be constantly picking up my Jeep from the shop just to prove a point. I started at my local dealer, moved my res to a dealer offering X-Plan, now may have to move it again to a giant dealer just to get my Bronco in the next year.

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