I feel like this is a lot of us right now

[Stampede.Offroad]

Alright, alright, alright, I get it. YOU don't know, I guess I assume too much about what you guys actually KNOW.

I feel like if I were on the outside looking in though I would have a hell of a lot more faith in those statements and the Bronco in general than I ever would have had for any of those other programs pre-launch.

It really seems like you have an axe to grind at this point. Maybe have a little faith and read between the lines

I'm not trying to bust your balls or anything, I know you tried to reach out to me and I appreciate that.

I'm just not swayed or convinced by the official vague language and total lack of objective information. Most people were willing to take any meaningless shiny thing or crumb of information Ford would brush off their drawing table and let their guard down after spending years of waiting and reminding every newcomer that most of the statements in automotive media were speculative and based on nothing -- but I'm used to spending a lot of time grinding through nonsense looking for the truth, and not letting hopeful hypotheses distract me from what is really there at the end of the observation.

The same is still true now, most of the ideas and assumptions being floated around here lately are speculative and based on nothing. People's emotions are all wound up in media of some kind of prototype, but it is pretty clear that most of this prototype is not suitable for production and the officials making statements about it, if you listen and look at their words without prejudice, really don't tell us anything we didn't know weeks ago beside a very short list of new items we had mostly deduced already. By our own insiders statements this prototype was being whipped up months before the final sign-offs by various Ford teams would even have happened, and early mules were still testing.

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[Stampede.Offroad]

...
And if I may address the tire issue Stampede, sure you have no idea if the production Bronco will be capable of handling those 37's because you don't know the development process. Similarly you had no reason to believe the JL could handle them until the axle specs were released and/or someone actually did it! ...

A JL won't handle 37s either. By most accounts 35"+ requires 1.5+" of lift.

The idea that 37's will fit on a stock Bronco is highly implausible, and that lift to get there is probably going to cost a lot more and have fewer options than the competition. Having seen nothing larger than 33's on a test unit that probably had a lot more in common with the production design than the "one-off" purpose built race rig, it seems likely the bean counters will push it down to 31" from the factory with perhaps a "Bronco Mod Center" option to go up to those 33s.

 

[JimmyDean]

A JL won't handle 37s either. By most accounts 35"+ requires 1.5+" of lift.

The idea that 37's will fit on a stock Bronco is highly implausible, and that lift to get there is probably going to cost a lot more and have fewer options than the competition. Having seen nothing larger than 33's on a test unit that probably had a lot more in common with the production design than the "one-off" purpose built race rig, it seems likely the bean counters will push it down to 31" from the factory with perhaps a "Bronco Mod Center" option to go up to those 33s.

caveat: a JL won't handle 37s while being pushed. My boss has had 37s on her JLU since she got it, no issues. but that thing doesn't even see wet grass.

 

[Jalisurr]

Even the chassis was repeatedly referred to as merely proving what the T6 platform was capable of, not what the Bronco was capable of -- maybe they're testing it for the Ranger Raptor, it was unnecessarily long after all.

Not quite true. From the press release, direct references to proving the capability of the Bronco.

"As a test, the Bronco R will head back to the Baja Peninsula later this month to take on the near 1,000-mile grueling off-road course and challenge the production Bronco’s powertrain and architecture."

“Rugged endurance racing is such a big part of Bronco heritage. The Baja 1000 gives us not only the perfect setting to honor Rod Hall’s win, it also provides an authentic test bed to demonstrate our upcoming Bronco’s desert racing capability and durability.”

"Bronco R race prototype is designed with the production model’s body-on-frame architecture to test its capability and durability"

 

[Cybrrstarr]

caveat: a JL won't handle 37s while being pushed. My boss has had 37s on her JLU since she got it, no issues. but that thing doesn't even see wet grass.

My buddy’s JLU rubicon with a 3 inch lift and 38’s, everything else all stock, completed the rubicon without a hiccup and still drove it back to SoCal achieving 18mpg.

you guys really don’t know what the wrangler is capable of.

Not quite true. From the press release, direct references to proving the capability of the Bronco.

"As a test, the Bronco R will head back to the Baja Peninsula later this month to take on the near 1,000-mile grueling off-road course and challenge the production Bronco’s powertrain and architecture."

“Rugged endurance racing is such a big part of Bronco heritage. The Baja 1000 gives us not only the perfect setting to honor Rod Hall’s win, it also provides an authentic test bed to demonstrate our upcoming Bronco’s desert racing capability and durability.”

"Bronco R race prototype is designed with the production model’s body-on-frame architecture to test its capability and durability"

that’s exactly the problem. Ford test all their new rigs at the “Baja” They did it with the raptor when they first came out too.

doesn’t seem like anything new to me. Their experts at the “Baja” already.

 

[BroncoBuyer]

Somebody needs to put up a poll..
Something like
Getta have sfa or not buying
Gotta have IFS or not buying
Don’t care about axles or suspension buying regardless
Buying regardless but strongly prefer ifs
Buying regardless but strongly prefer sfa


I am of the buying regardless but would strongly prefer it had a nice sfa

at least then we can have ONE thread where anyone can beat the suspension topic to death.

 

[Toyhoarder]

Somebody needs to put up a poll..
Something like
Getta have sfa or not buying
Gotta have IFS or not buying
Don’t care about axles or suspension buying regardless
Buying regardless but strongly prefer ifs
Buying regardless but strongly prefer sfa


I am of the buying regardless but would strongly prefer it had a nice sfa

at least then we can have ONE thread where anyone can beat the suspension topic to death.

My guess:
90%= don’t care
5%=SFA only
1%=ifs only
2%=prefer SFA
2%=prefer ifs

 

[OX1]

^^^
Ford has been killing it recently. Between the GT500, new Explorer/edge ST, Ford GT, and the raptor, I’m going to trust them to not screw it up.

I don't know about "killing it" with the Edge ST. Slower than a 4 year old Sport.
Same basic brakes as a 4000 lb Fusion Sport.......... (was hoping for factory upgraded brakes
I might be able to steal for my fusion).

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a23654624/2019-ford-edge-st-performance/

 

[OX1]

My buddy’s JLU rubicon with a 3 inch lift and 38’s, everything else all stock, completed the rubicon without a hiccup and still drove it back to SoCal achieving 18mpg.

you guys really don’t know what the wrangler is capable of.

It's the only vehicle I will spend a day wheeling with anymore, if my normal wheeling buds can't go.
I spend upwards of $250-$300 to drag my rig out for a day of wheeling and the last time I went with
a bunch of newer toyotas, we spent hours changing at least 3 CV shafts, and it was VERY slow wheeling on
medium difficulty trails.

 

[BroncoMike]

My buddy’s JLU rubicon with a 3 inch lift and 38’s, everything else all stock, completed the rubicon without a hiccup and still drove it back to SoCal achieving 18mpg.

you guys really don’t know what the wrangler is capable of.

The discussion was how much tire could be put on without a lift. The 3" lift in your example sort of takes that out of the parameters of the discussion, no?

 

[BroncoMike]

With a Saws-All® you can make anything fit.

And ALL doors are removable. Roofs too, I guess.

 

[Fosters]

That might be a pretty good analogy actually. Solid rear axle on the mustang is better for drag racing. Solid front axle is better for rock crawling. Because they are the way it's always been done, there is much more support for that method and it's seen as the way things should be. However, by changing to IRS or IFS respectively, they gain not only better road manners, but also a larger breadth of ability. The IRS mustang is FAR superior on a racetrack with corners and still can drag race, the IFS Bronco will be superior in offroad situations other than trying to crawl up the biggest rocks you can find at 3mph, but I'm sure it will still do it if not quite as well. That's in addition to the general livability improvements.

Admittedly, I'm sure the people who ONLY want their mustang to drag race and nothing else were rightfully disappointed and will have to stick with their old solid axle mustangs. For the people whose only metric they care about is slow speed rock crawling, they will probably find that the Bronco doesn't quite match up to a wrangler, though that remains to be seen.

For me, SFA would have been a dealbreaker because I like speed so I'm very happy. Apologies to the SFA purists.

No reason to apologize - the only thing is, there are already many models out there available with independent front suspensions. Other than the wrangler, and superduty class trucks, there's nothing with a solid axle. If they wanted an IFS suv, the upcoming explorer going back to a body on frame design could do that...

I just think that people are seriously overestimating how much rock crawling ability the Bronco needs. The amount of people who “rock crawl” their brand new $45,000 rig is minuscule. If it can take on some hard, but not insanely difficult trails I’m sure it is gonna do well.

You'd be surprised; there's a huge market - watch how fast they're racing to come up with new stuff for the JL... I took my rubicon out with a paper plate first time

 

[BroncoMike]

the upcoming explorer going back to a body on frame design

I haven't lifted the skirt on one yet, but I'm surprised I missed the Explorer going back to body-on-frame.

 

[Jalisurr]

No reason to apologize - the only thing is, there are already many models out there available with independent front suspensions. Other than the wrangler, and superduty class trucks, there's nothing with a solid axle. If they wanted an IFS suv, the upcoming explorer going back to a body on frame design could do that...

That's fair. I fully understand my use case is not common. Nothing on the market right now has the right combination of small size, high performance drivetrain, and rugged IFS suspension that'll survive being thrown over ruts and stuff at high speed. Nobody has made such a thing since my Pajero Evolution was new (at least not at a reasonable price point) but Ford has my hopes up.

I wish we could get vehicles that make everyone happy but the market for enthusiast vehicles is unfortunately kinda small

 

[Stampede.Offroad]

I haven't lifted the skirt on one yet, but I'm surprised I missed the Explorer going back to body-on-frame.

It's a possible solution for that white space.

That is not what they chose though, but instead resurrected a nameplate that carries a very rugged off road heritage.

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