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Carolina Jim

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Home is ~4,000 feet...but the grouse mostly hang ~5,000. My pups are brittanies, the only way I could hunt behind Viszlas would be to take one of their legs off. Seems kinda drastic, so I stick with the plodders.
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BroncoBuyer

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. The 5R110 has a 3.11:1 first gear vs. the 3.09:1 in the Allison.

Awe yes, I knew it was a 4 speed. That 1st gear ratio made all the difference..
FORD 4R100 TRANSMISSION RATIOS

1st. 2.71:1

All I really remember was fighting to keep spark plugs in place, didn’t stick with Ford long enough to research the fine details and went running back to GM after that.
 

Fosters

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So I did some poking around and found the plots you were talking about, unfortunately the only V10 plots I found were for the 2 valve motor rated at 425 FtLbs vs 457 FtLbs for the 3 valve. I would be curious to see if the low end is any better on the 3 valve seeing as how the 2012+ chassis cab 3 valve peaked at 460 FtLbs @ 3,000 RPM.

Ford 2 valve 6.8L v10
fordv10_zps0dabb993_78211e852a798fa30f559bd884b4836be28517f5.jpg

Chevy 8.1L from a Kodiak
Dyno_Run_8_1_Vortec.jpg

And just for fun, the Dodge 8.0L V10 (I am not sure how much I believe this one based on the "curve fit" going on with the plot)
dodge-8l-v10-horsepower-and-torque-curve.jpg


The plot you linked for the 8.1L on diesel hub doesn't actually go down to 1,000RPM, and based on the plot for the Kodiak, I would say the 2 valve is within 20-30FtLbs, but still, it would be interesting to see how the 3 valve would stack up. Either way though, low speeds aren't what I typically find to be challenging in an under powered vehicle, it is higher speeds in the mid and top range...





So you owned two of the non-PI 2 valve V10s (1999 only, 305HP/420FtLbs) which were backed by the 4R100 and are comparing it to the 340HP/455FtLbs early 8.1Ls (for some reason power went down to 320HP/440FtLbs on the '04-'06 trucks) with the 5 speed Allison? Well in that case, yes the 8.1L is a better setup.

I was talking about the 2005-2010 3 valve V10s which were 362HP/457FtLbs and paired with the 5R110 5 speed auto (or ZF S6-650 6 speed manual). The 5R110 has a 3.11:1 first gear vs. the 3.09:1 in the Allison.
Your figures for the 1999 V10 are a bit optimistic - and misquoted around the web quite a bit. They're actually still running the non pi heads on the V10 in that year, which were good for a whopping 275hp and 410ft-lbs of torque. Here's the official brochure for 1999.

http://www.auto-brochures.com/makes/Ford/SuperDuty/Ford_US SuperDuty_1999.pdf

If I'm not mistaking, the van version was even more pathetic at 265hp and 405tq, due to a more restrictive air cleaner/intake deal. That was the one that went into motorhomes... you can imagine how painful that was... lol.

There are some charts in there but are pretty much useless as dynoes go... heh.

2000 V10 moved to 310hp/425 tq from the PI heads/intake upgrade, and 2005 moved to the 3v for trucks - stayed 2v PI heads for the vans until end of production.

It always baffled me that Ford went from 2v heads that were spitting out spark plugs, to the 3v heads that wouldn't let go of spark plugs... lol.
 
OP
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This was the one I was looking at, which I think is still a 2 valve

attachment.jpg

Hard to say on that 8.1 chart (or any of these charts starting at that low RPM), hard to guage if they were really full
throttle by the time they got to that RPM (or did they start dyno at that RPM)

Anyway, getting back tot he ECO's. I still maintain the 2.7 will be much more economical once you start pushing these things harder.
The (at least, again probably more with equal rigs/drivetrains) 60 ff-lb advantage @ 2500 and 100 ft-lbs @ 3100 makes getting up to speed
much easier and getting out of boost sooner, while also giving you a better fighting chance of staying out of boost once up to speed.

Ford seems to run these things @ 10:1ish in the higher rev ranges, so you'd like to keep it below 4000 ish. Obviously you can tune to get some
of the mileage back, but then you have at least some warantee concerns (which I'd guess your warantee is probably out the window if you
roll in with 3" lift, 33/35's and blown motor anyway).

That does bring up a point I've wondered. Do A/F guages really read correct with a DI engine? One of the points from my understanding is
to create a local point of a rich A/F, without making the entire comb chamber/mixture that rich. So is the exh reading just an average?
 

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jamanrr

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One motor you are not mentioning is the UK sourced 3 liter diesel that is in my current f150, it gets 25 plus mpg and is a stout motor
 

Wizard1183

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Im willing to bet the 7.3 big block is more efficient and gets better mpg than the 6.8 ever did. As a matter of fact, my 8.1 liter big block in my 3/4 ton gmc gets better mileage than the 6.8 ford as I’ve had both. The V10 F250 wanted to rev to produce torque, the 8.1 vortec likes to hang real low in the rpm range for optimal torque and therefore both require totally different throttle applications.

now that I think about it, it might even come down to how a particular engine encourages a person to drive it..
That’s why these days you can tune it to your driving and put torque curve where you want it.
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