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2.3 EcoBoost Carbon Buildup

SamR

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People always say to drive it hard "regularly" to prevent buildup but what does that mean? Every 100 miles? 1,000 miles?

This tread is of interest to me because I won't buy the bronco without a manual so I need ro figure out how to deal with the 2.3!
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If I do end up with the 2.3 (want the manual), I'll probably swap in one of the extra baffled PCV breather plates along with a catch can (or two). If I'm going to go through the trouble, might as well do as much mitigation as I can, all at the start.
Going with 2.3 also as I want the manual. I am familiar with catch cans and expect to install one. What is the extra baffled PCV plate you mentioned?
 

crowdpleazer

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Dumb question, does installing a catch can void any warranties?
 

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Going with 2.3 also as I want the manual. I am familiar with catch cans and expect to install one. What is the extra baffled PCV plate you mentioned?
Pretty simple piece of aluminum that replaces the stock breather plate. The aftermarket ones add an extra baffle that should help reduce the amount of oil vapor making it up into your catch can, or onto your valves. Radium and Mountune both make one. There are probably others.

Since Ford didn't add port injectors to the 2.3eb and won't give us a manual 2.7eb. I guess it falls on us.

So, this, use good full synthetic, and change often.
 

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Blksn955.o

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Run some fuel treatment now and then, drive the damn thing ie...take it up to peak power/rpm (not redline necessarily) when merging from local 35-40mph traffic onto a highway when possible, and run premium.
 

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Dumb question, does installing a catch can void any warranties?
Probably. But wouldn't you look forward to that court case? I would.

A catch can, properly installed will not cause any harm. Now if you screw something up, that would be on you.
Run some fuel treatment now and then, drive the damn thing ie...take it up to peak power/rpm (not redline necessarily) when merging from local 35-40mph traffic onto a highway when possible, and run premium.
Agreed on the premium.

But I haven't seen anything solid to indicate that this Italian tune-up strategy is at all effective. But I'm always looking. Got anything?

In the meantime, I'll just keep doing what I can to reduce the volume of vapors reaching the valves because I have no evidence that anything works.

Another tip that almost certainly helps... don't push it hard until the engine has reached proper operating temperature. and reduce the number of short trips. I know... "duhh".

Though I haven't tried it yet, I might burn a can of the spray in cleaner every once in a while, though this also may turn out to be a total waste.

Unfortunately, I just don't have the resources to do any controlled experiments on any of this. But I do know, from direct observation, that the build-up can become an issue in the 60k to 80k mile range. However, even that observational evidence is heavily skewed towards drivers that like to modify things and enjoy "spirited" driving. I can't honestly say how/if it will apply to typical Bronco driving behaviors.
 

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Agreed on the premium.

But I haven't seen anything solid to indicate that this Italian tune-up strategy is at all effective. But I'm always looking. Got anything?

In the meantime, I'll just keep doing what I can to reduce the volume of vapors reaching the valves because I have no evidence that anything works.

Another tip that almost certainly helps... don't push it hard until the engine has reached proper operating temperature. and reduce the number of short trips. I know... "duhh".

Though I haven't tried it yet, I might burn a can of the spray in cleaner every once in a while, though this also may turn out to be a total waste.

Unfortunately, I just don't have the resources to do any controlled experiments on any of this. But I do know, from direct observation, that the build-up can become an issue in the 60k to 80k mile range. However, even that observational evidence is heavily skewed towards drivers that like to modify things and enjoy "spirited" driving. I can't honestly say how/if it will apply to typical Bronco driving behaviors.

You can see the "impact" or results to an extent on the road. Often enough if you look for it you can see when cars accelerate especially in the hwy merge lane. Look at the exhaust of the cars in front of you if you safely can. When you see black smoke almost like a diesel but of course not rolling coal levels when the car in front is also accelerating to speed that is carbon being broken up and expelled. For example my buddies mom used to have a corvette that she drove like a grandma...before she was a grandma. Every once in a while someone other than her would drive it and the times I was behind them and they would accelerate by more aggressive means all kinds of black soot would come out the tailpipes. Most peoples driving ability quickly diminishes in anything more than slightly overcast conditions doing everything else but driving.

The wifes uncle is a Sr Master at a Ford dealership with 30+yrs experience. For example of the Italian tune-up when he gets the dct and stuff in for shifting fiesta for example. He does an initial inspection and takes the car out and runs it thru the paces. He said generally after a few stop/accelerate to speed (not racing but with meaning/intent) it tends to clear the glaze off the clutch and gives the computer that learns habits (bad habits of drivers) a kick the problems tend to clear up a majority of the time. His biggest gripe is the poor driving habits and I think with a little observation and understand of what makes poor habits most would understand how low the bar is with the general public and their driving ability. People accelerate at a lazy and distracted pace, few understand the actual rules of merging, pay no attention to lane usage and are in their own "bubble" that they are the only ones on the road.
 

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You can see the "impact" or results to an extent on the road. Often enough if you look for it you can see when cars accelerate especially in the hwy merge lane. Look at the exhaust of the cars in front of you if you safely can. When you see black smoke almost like a diesel but of course not rolling coal levels when the car in front is also accelerating to speed that is carbon being broken up and expelled. For example my buddies mom used to have a corvette that she drove like a grandma...before she was a grandma. Every once in a while someone other than her would drive it and the times I was behind them and they would accelerate by more aggressive means all kinds of black soot would come out the tailpipes. Most peoples driving ability quickly diminishes in anything more than slightly overcast conditions doing everything else but driving.

The wifes uncle is a Sr Master at a Ford dealership with 30+yrs experience. For example of the Italian tune-up when he gets the dct and stuff in for shifting fiesta for example. He does an initial inspection and takes the car out and runs it thru the paces. He said generally after a few stop/accelerate to speed (not racing but with meaning/intent) it tends to clear the glaze off the clutch and gives the computer that learns habits (bad habits of drivers) a kick the problems tend to clear up a majority of the time. His biggest gripe is the poor driving habits and I think with a little observation and understand of what makes poor habits most would understand how low the bar is with the general public and their driving ability. People accelerate at a lazy and distracted pace, few understand the actual rules of merging, pay no attention to lane usage and are in their own "bubble" that they are the only ones on the road.
So you collected some of this exhaust carbon and were able to trace its origins back to the cold side of the intake valves and stems? That's great! I wasn't sure this was possible.

Okay, sorry, I truly can't help myself... natural born smart a$$.

That said, I've seen the intake valves of several TDI engines that were basically never driven by any grandmas, yet had significant issues. The biggest gap in my picture is that I haven't seen enough grandma driven cars for comparison. Is it possible that the situation on the intake valves would be much worse there? Maybe... and a frightening thought.

What i suspect is more likely is that these hard driven vehicles, seeing substantially more and longer period of boost, often "overclocked", simply leads to more crank case pressures venting through PCV, and thus more depositing. It's also possible that temperature does play a role, but on the cold side of the intake valves, the effect is the opposite of what you're expecting. They will never get as hot as the exhaust side and may never get hot enough to burn anything off, but may actually get hot enough to promote the cooking of the oil residue to the valves. A temperature range that might never occur on a grandma driven car.

Again, my knowledge is not as large as someone working at a dealership servicing a good sample of all the vehicles out there. Some here indicate that they do see the problem more severe in gently driven vehicles. I don't dismiss their claims either. I just take all the facts that I have and try to do my best to make sense of them.

I'm not saying you're wrong. We both have anecdotal evidence to support our mental models of what's really going on and what might help out. What we do know is that the newer TDIs with added port injectors seem to have essentially eliminated the issue.

If I end up with the 2.3, I'll take the measures that I find reasonable and I think might help.
 

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So you collected some of this exhaust carbon and were able to trace its origins back to the cold side of the intake valves and stems? That's great! I wasn't sure this was possible.

Okay, sorry, I truly can't help myself... natural born smart a$$.

That said, I've seen the intake valves of several TDI engines that were basically never driven by any grandmas, yet had significant issues. The biggest gap in my picture is that I haven't seen enough grandma driven cars for comparison. Is it possible that the situation on the intake valves would be much worse there? Maybe... and a frightening thought.

What i suspect is more likely is that these hard driven vehicles, seeing substantially more and longer period of boost, often "overclocked", simply leads to more crank case pressures venting through PCV, and thus more depositing. It's also possible that temperature does play a role, but on the cold side of the intake valves, the effect is the opposite of what you're expecting. They will never get as hot as the exhaust side and may never get hot enough to burn anything off, but may actually get hot enough to promote the cooking of the oil residue to the valves. A temperature range that might never occur on a grandma driven car.

Again, my knowledge is not as large as someone working at a dealership servicing a good sample of all the vehicles out there. Some here indicate that they do see the problem more severe in gently driven vehicles. I don't dismiss their claims either. I just take all the facts that I have and try to do my best to make sense of them.

I'm not saying you're wrong. We both have anecdotal evidence to support our mental models of what's really going on and what might help out. What we do know is that the newer TDIs with added port injectors seem to have essentially eliminated the issue.

If I end up with the 2.3, I'll take the measures that I find reasonable and I think might help.
TDI = Diesel Different beast all together the fuel alone is more oil (often times called an oil burner) and even thought the ecoboost has some diesel like design items implemented they are not a direct apple to apple comparison.

I can see some deposits getting into and thru the PVC system. 94-95 mustang guys for years have put air compressor oil/water separators in the PVC line to pull out the oil from that mix. The intake valve gets hot, not as hot as an exhaust valve but hot enough that many injectors are placed to fire on the valve to atomize the fuel better as it will be hot enough to turn any liquid in the spray to vapor. This is done to cool the intake valve and mix the fuel a little better.

I am not saying the Italian tune up is the bang on 100% fix, just that how the engine was designed to operate and how poor driving habits can cause issues. I am not in any way saying there is no issue with the direct injection and buildup just that some of that is probably exacerbated by those bad habits. That is why I also noted to use some fuel treatment as well to help clean/knock down the buildup.
 

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Pretty simple piece of aluminum that replaces the stock breather plate. The aftermarket ones add an extra baffle that should help reduce the amount of oil vapor making it up into your catch can, or onto your valves. Radium and Mountune both make one. There are probably others.

Since Ford didn't add port injectors to the 2.3eb and won't give us a manual 2.7eb. I guess it falls on us.

So, this, use good full synthetic, and change often.
Checked out the two you mentioned and now understand. Looks like Ford created a passive no-maintenance device to help limit crankcase vapors going to the intake and therefore maybe possibly limiting or slowing build up. Understand manufacturers not installing catch cans from factory due to expense and fact that most folks would not check drain maintain them...heck I bet a lot of folks don't lift the hood anymore. So this appears to be an answer for that.
My only limited experience with a DI engine is our current 2019 Subaru Forester. Not turbo, just DI. Put a catch can on shortly after driving it off the lot...maybe 500 miles on the odometer. Have about 6k now. Check the can about every 1.5k. Have gotten at most maybe 1/4 cup of condensate total in that time.
Based on the fact that a couple of times the condensate was milky or grayish colored I don't think I'd put a more baffled plate on the 2.3. In fact I venture to say I'd want no baffles! My reasoning is that baffles will condense vapors and drain them directly back into the crankcase. If what I've seen in my again very limited experience is some condensed water and/or fuel vapors I wouldn't want to be dumping that back into my crankcase. Would rather collect and condense 100% of the vapors in the can and get rid of it but again I see why Ford would create a baffled plate. I will be installing a CC with stock baffle plate.
 
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Is it? I've not heard that, though I haven't really looked either. I have the 2.3 in an RS, and for what it's worth my Blackstone reports have come back with no signs of fuel dilution so far.
I had a Focus ST and sent oil samples in to Blackstone and they specifically noted the lack of fuel dilution in my report so it must be a thing.
 

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If this was such a huge issue, wouldn’t we be hearing more from the Mustang Ecoboosts? There’s a couple of forum topics but not many pages long. Surprising since theyve been around a while now. Gotta be some high mileage issues.
 

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This is a good summary of an Engineering Explained video. It does not support the oft cited “high rpms” prevents carbon build-up on the intake valves - high rpms may actually may make it worse.

https://www.enginelabs.com/news/video-is-running-your-engine-up-to-redline-actually-good-for-it/

This is a summary of another Engineering Explained video that indicates catch cans may be effective in reducing carbon build-up.

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/do-oil-catch-cans-work/

For those not familiar, Engineering Explained is a very high quality site that uses evidence/science to reach conclusions.
 

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For what it’s worth... I have a lot of friends that are ford techs. The coking issue is simply a problem with the combination of boost with the PCV system. PCV systems are on almost any vehicle. When subjected to boost, oil is drawn into the intake tract. Normally, the fuel mixture in the intake tract dissolves and re-combusts the oil residue. With direct injection, there’s no fuel to break the residue down and it can, but not always, coke up the valves. Im a firm believer of “getting on” a vehicle periodically. I think it eliminates the gum-up, but I can’t technically back that up. Ive got an early (2012) EcoBoost F-150 with no catch can and right at 170K miles on it. Ive experienced the common EcoBoost shudder, which is oil from the PCV system getting sucked into the combustion chamber, but it’s random at best. My new Bronco will have a catch-can, but my 3.5 is a bit different then the 2.7. It’s just a good measure of protection. Stage 3 Motorsports and a few others already have catch can systems for the 2.7 and the 2.3. Please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong in this. Thanks.
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