2.7 Oil Change: Took 6 Quarts Not 7

[GoTigersGoBronco]

Jeeps had a whole thing with the 3.6 about only needing 5 quarts instead of the old 6 in the JL. It’s hilarious that Ford is having the same problem, but also be prepared to notify your service departments every time you pick it up. Some jeep owners are still struggling with this three years into the model run

I’m still thinking about how I’m going to explain a 5 tire rotation to the service department.

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[Carolina Jim]

It 100% is a 7 quart capacity

I don't contest what you say....but what about the folks measuring drainage & getting only 6 out?

 

[Grooticus]

I saw a video of a guy who changed the oil and he measured the quarts that came out at 6 so that’s what he put in. The 2.7 eco boost in the F-150 is 6 qt I believe. I wonder if this has led to some of the engine issues people have had.

 

[Carolina Jim]

I wonder

I wonder why Ford would leave us twisting in the wind on such a fundamental question.

 

[broncorik]

As stated earlier, the baffling and shelf of the pan really do inhibit recovery. The dipstick was designed to be accurate for the amount of oil. Recovery/fill of only 6 does not dictate there is only 6 in the complete system. It is recommended to let it drain quite extensively but it does appear from here that it’s quite challenging to get that last quart out but I cannot faithfully claim a root cause right now.

So I decided to change my oil sooner rather than later. 6 quart or 7 quart capacity oil pan or not, here is what I experienced tonight:

1. Ran Bronco to operating temp
2. Removed oil filter housing first, per instructions, so oil would drain from housing back to pan
3. Removed oil drain plug
4. Let it drain for over an hour (just to be sure). No more oil was dripping after that hour.
5. Replaced oil filter and o-rings...tightened to 22 Nm
6. Replaced oil drain plug.
Measured exact amount of oil that came out...and it was exactly 6.6 quarts. Now for the interesting part...prior to the oil being dumped, my dipstick read about 1/2 inch ABOVE the max line. Based on that, my question is this: in what universe does it make sense to have a dipstick that is not accurate installed from the factory? It is feasible that the new whiz bang pan can hold 7 quarts, but unless Ford adds 1/2 inch length to the bottom of the block, above the oil pan, to compensate for the inaccurate dipstick (or just uses the proper dipstick...but can any fellow mechanics even fathom why a a block that is the same dimensions as the prior generation wouldn't use the same dipstick? The dipstick does not care how much the pan holds...it only knows how far the oil level is from the top line) no one is going to be able to add the correct amount of oil. If the pan truly hold 7 quarts, why then does it show 1/2 inch higher on the stick when "full?"

BTW, I added 6 quarts exactly back into the pan, (figuring that nearly half a quart must still be hiding in the engine someplace IF the factory filled it to 7 quarts (but if the dealer checked the level during PDI, why did it leave the dealer still at 1/2 inch above the max line on the stick??), and after running the motor with the fresh oil and letting it sit for even more than the prescribed amount of time per the manual the stick now shows EXACTLY at the full mark? If I would have simply added 7 quarts, the oil level would be WAY above the max fill level...and engines do not like to be run with too high of an oil level.
Thoughts? Clearly, the dipstick is wrong or the manual is wrong.

 

[buzpro]

I don't contest what you say....but what about the folks measuring drainage & getting only 6 out?

could it be that the 2.7 actually uses 6 qts but the pan is 7 qts just to have some headroom? .... just so when the oil drains down overnight, its not sitting level with the seals/O-rings of the pan?

 

[Carolina Jim]

Thoughts?

I am gathering concerns here

I'm not a gearhead & won't be changing my own oil. But its not difficult to foresee what will transpire at the dealer oil change:

1. "When checking the engine oil level after shutting off the engine, wait at least 15 minutes prior to checking in order to allow the oil to drain back to the oil pan."
- 15 minutes....will never happen
2. "Allow the oil pan to drain completely for up to 5 minutes. Check oil level after filling by following the oil level check procedure."
- Check oil level...doubtful
3. Almost certainly the dealer tech will not measure how much comes out; they'll drain a little more than 6 quarts...and add 7 back in

 

[broncorik]

The stick has a low mark, a full mark, and just above the full mark is a "max" mark. Right now, at exactly a 6 quart refill (after draining out 6.6 quarts), I am dead on the full mark.

 

[broncorik]

Engines do not care if a pan holds 6 quarts or 60 quarts...but what they do care about is if the oil level is too high or to low. Too low can lead to metal to metal contact, too high can lead to aeration, potential leaking past seals, oil in the pcv system, increased resistance if the oil level is high enough to contact the crank/rods/etc.

All I seek is a straight answer from Ford as to whether an owner should follow the owners manual 7 quart capacity directive OR the owners manual dipstick level directive (impossible to follow both because they conflict with one another). Currently, adding 7 quarts means an oil level far above the max fill indication on the dipstick. I have yet to find ANY 2.7 Bronco owner who has shared that adding 7 quarts results in the oil level on the stick ending up at the upper fill line. I contacted Ford via this forum, and was "encouraged" to contact my dealer...yet my dealer performed the PDI at which (if they even checked it) my oil level was way over on the stick when I took delivery. Most service managers are not mechanics, and most mechanics at Ford will simply dump the oil and add the recommended amount. That leaves no one to ask, no definitive answer.

If the 2.7 blocks are the same across all platforms, the definitive way to determine the difference between the Bronco pan and all others that take 6 quarts is to put the two new oil pans side by side, add 7 quarts of water (cheaper than oil) to Bronco pan and 6 to the other, and measure the distance from the top of the water to the top of the pan. If the levels are exactly the same, the dipstick in the Bronco must be inaccurate. If the level on the Bronco pan is 1/2 inch higher, that is not ideal...unless Ford decided that their "do more cool stuff off road" pan is simply an overfilled sump??

 

[72BroncoSand]

 

[broncorik]

Mine is currently at B (having added 6 quarts, not 7). Prior to my oil change, it was 1/2 inch ABOVE C (and for reference I was able to get 6.6 quarts out after draining the system). That leads me to believe that 7 quarts was the initial fill, and that either the pan was not really meant to hold 7 or that the dipstick is inaccurately scribed. So the question is still "which is it?"

Most normal folks won't perseverate on issues like this nearly as much as us Bronco 6g folks, and they will end up with overfilled 2.7s (if the sticks are in fact accurate). Others will end up following the manual regarding the stick, and then underfilling (if the sticks are inaccurate). Either way, should it be this hard to get a straight answer?

 

[JohnnyBronco]

The oil pan on the Bronco is the largest installed on any Nano motor currently. It 100% is a 7 quart capacity.

I don't contest what you say....but what about the folks measuring drainage & getting only 6 out?

My 2 cents

The pan has a capacity of much more than 7 if you took it off and filled it to overflowing. Probably more like 20. It is the freshly assembled and installed ENGINE PLUS ALL LINES AND FILTERS before the vehicle rolls off the assembly line that stated capacity is 7. In no world can you remove 100% of assembly oil unless you tear down the engine, and even then some oil will remain in nooks and crannies - or have evaporated. Hondas used to be known for using up a quart every 3500-5000 oil change interval and that was considered within factory specs and no adjustment necessary.

And draining the pan does not drain the actual pleats of the filter. Guaranteed that if the filter holds a quart and you drain 6 from pan you get 7 total. And no way you can drain the filter element completely after removal to measure just how much it held

So you can't put 7 quarts back into a "7 qt capacity" engine,
did you drain the turbo coolant lines?

Did you remove the filter canister and move it to its lowest point? (oil in BMW and Caddys remains in housing and has to be mopped up to remove)

Did you verify the part number (not of the pan) of the dipstick itself? We had Perkins diesel engines where dipstick part was dependent on s/n of the engine - or maybe the dipstick tube is a tad too short - OR (mostly on small engines with screw in dipsticks) maybe the level is not supposed to be measured with stick completely inserted, but out 3/8". Laugh if you must but I have seen this

Back in the day when filter changes were only factory spec'd for every other oil change there would be two capacities listed

Did you ever think, since this engine surely has a quart low sensor and warning that Fiord never intended there to be a dipstick? My BMWs have not had dipsticks and the solution has always been to install the specified volume

I have always felt that while under warranty the best oil service is from the factory authorized service center

 

[72BroncoSand]

Ford service just performed my Bronco first oil change 2 days ago. Upon returning home and checking oil level it was at least 1/2” above maximum. Brought it back to them today and they adjusted it to the correct level. All I’m saying is double check yourself. Nobody cares more about your vehicle than you.

 

[PartyMarty]

My hunch is that the total capacity is 7 qts, but you'll never get all 7 qts out no matter what. In my yamaha waverunner manual, it says the capacity is 4 quarts, but nobody is ever able to suck out more than 3.5 qts, and putting back in 4 quarts and overfilling it will kill that engine! Unless there is further clarification, I will be filling to the full mark on the dipstick with full synthetic every 5k miles, assuming there is always a quart left in the system from the previous change.

 

[broncorik]

I got a call back from the shop foreman at my local dealership...he recommended using the dipstick to fill after an oil change. He also indicated that the factory has been known to overfill various fluids (and even tire pressures) .

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