2.7L blown engine failure list . . 68 so far [Updated: December 13, 2022]

[VictoryLights]

Until the price of all warranty fixes become cheaper than a recall, it makes no business sense to do this.

And you can replace a lot of engines. So unless people start getting injured and massive lawsuits threaten to raise that $ number, a full recall just would not make sense.

And although we don't have a number, we know for a fact that there are 2.7 engines out there that are working just fine and have made it well over the 5K mark.

They also need to account for the cost of losing future business from customers who this affects.

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[JPye]

Ford has a chance to capture me as a lifelong customer. I have always wanted to buy American vehicles but due to reliability concerns have always stuck with Honda and Toyota.

The Bronco was just too perfect for me to pass up on, so I bit. I fully expect minor issues with a new vehicle design, but valve issues on an engine that you’ve been producing for years? Wtf

If they’re smart they will do right by the people like me by being honest, transparent, and fixing the issue before I’m stranded on the side of the road or worse yet in a forest somewhere.

I swore I'd never buy another Ford product when the transmission went out on my 2000 Lincoln LS 500 miles out of warranty. The dealer's concession was to replaced it for half the cost. I picked it up with the new transmission, drove to the next dealership and bought a new car. A Nissan 350Z! It was a blast, and I never had any issues except keeping fresh rubber under the wheels. I have also owned GM, Toyota and BMW since then. This Ford, US made vehicle is my first foray back into the fold. Hmm. Not what we had hoped for huh?

Do we need to remind ourselves that we got caught up in the marketing hype for a first year production model? I would like to have a first year Bronco that did not fail! Wishful thinking? Yes! Possible? Meh?

 

[VictoryLights]

All it can take is just a supply issue with the valves. Maybe a bad batch, change in supplier, or other things, Just because they have been producing the same engine doesn't mean things haven't been updated.

My 16 miata had a bad batch of 2nd gear due to a defect in a run of gears. It happens

If that’s the case then put out a press release and then recall all of the engines with the bad valves. It’s simple.

 

[ChompSticks]

If that’s the case then put out a press release and then recall all of the engines with the bad valves. It’s simple.

It'll probably just be a TSB like Mazda did. Why replace something that isn't broken? I know it sucks because it can leave you stranded though.

 

[VictoryLights]

It'll probably just be a TSB like Mazda did. Why replace something that isn't broken? I know it sucks because it can leave you stranded though.

If they can put out a TSB that says this only affects a small percentage of engines built between X and Y dates that’s good too. Then we can assess the risk as owners and make a decision on whether we feel comfortable with the vehicle.

 

[Snydermann]

Unless they are forced to, Ford isn't going to voluntarily say or do a thing other than fix the vehicle under warranty. There is no benefit to the widespread bad publicity, it's better to just disappoint a handful of customers.

I'd bet the mechanics at the dealer aren't even allowed to take the engines apart for fear of photos getting leaked.

 

[HeliPilot]

Unless they are forced to, Ford isn't going to voluntarily say or do a thing other than fix the vehicle under warranty. There is no benefit to the widespread bad publicity, it's better to just disappoint a handful of customers.

I'd bet the mechanics at the dealer aren't even allowed to take the engines apart for fear of photos getting leaked.

Exactly

 

[Lucchese]

. . owners of failed engines need to do though is report it to the NHTSA. It's easily done through their website. If they see enough failures, they will investigate. Then most likely cause Ford to initiate a recall based on their findings.

Subaru in recent years had an issue with some bad valve springs. They would crack and fail with very similar results to what is going on here. The NHTSA made them do a recall on the over 400,000 cars affected which is a heck of a lot more than with the 2.7 situation here.

Sunday added link to NHTSA Complaints in the opening post

- suggested by @faziorf and @Mean Red GT

 

[Icarus]

Also are we saying that if you don’t properly break in your car, this could be a cause for an engine blown? Dropped cylinder?

I broke mine in by the book and look where it got me.

 

[JPye]

Sunday I added link to NHTSA Complaints in the opening post

- suggested by @faziorf and @Mean Red GT

That's what happened to me. I was in the middle lane on Georgia 400 when mine failed. Lost power and had to drift to the shoulder. I was lucky I had enough velocity to make it since no one wanted to let me over.

That's what I like about moving to Canada. Considerate drivers, "oh, I'm sorry". Not kidding either. I am shocked each time I go back to the US at how aggressive drivers are, plus there is a cop behind every billboard or clump of trees. You will rarely see a cop pull someone over here. I think it is a safety thing. I wonder what the statistics are for US accidents around cops.

I am happy that you were able to move off the highway and safely get out of your Bronco. This is exactly why this problem will be addressed soon. I don't think that is overly optimistic. If Ford does not address this issue soon, they will have a loss of life or serious injury due to the engine just not doing what it was supposed to do. Move the Bronco, and in an emergency, move it to a safe location away from traffic. I am not sure how well an inexperienced new driver would have handled their's if they experienced what you had experienced.

 

[Icarus]

That's what I like about moving to Canada. Considerate drivers, "oh, I'm sorry". Not kidding either. I am shocked each time I go back to the US at how aggressive drivers are, plus there is a cop behind every billboard or clump of trees. You will rarely see a cop pull someone over here. I think it is a safety thing. I wonder what the statistics are for US accidents around cops.

I am happy that you were able to move off the highway and safely get out of your Bronco. This is exactly why this problem will be addressed soon. I don't think that is overly optimistic. If Ford does not address this issue soon, they will have a loss of life or serious injury due to the engine just not doing what it was supposed to do. Move the Bronco, and in an emergency, move it to a safe location away from traffic. I am not sure how well an inexperienced new driver would have handled their's if they experienced what you had experienced.

Unfortunately down here people tend to panic and stop in whatever lane they are in on the interstate. People also have no respect for amber lights or emergency vehicles. Georgia has a move over law but I rarely see it enforced. I was sitting on a very small shoulder with my hazards on and people were still flying by at 80+.

 

[ryridesmotox]

Financially a full recall just doesn't make sense unless Ford already believes a huge percentage will fail.

By definition, there are 2 orders of magnitude difference at 1% replacement (fixing broken) vs. 100 % replacement (recall). This is just an example - no one knows the true failure percentage and we won't for a long time.

I'm going to use fictional numbers here so I don't get crucified - just an exercise. And if you don't like these back of the envelop exercises please just keep scrolling...

Let's assume 50,000 engines at a cost of $5K parts and labor (cost to Ford - not price to you - and just an estimate)

recall all: 50,000 x $5K = $250,000,000
fix 1% when they break: 500 x $5K = $2,500,000

Of course they have to value in lots of other stuff (value of human loss if a safety issue, reputation, loss of new customers, etc.).

Better question was asked earlier: would they just recall the valves? Probably not financially competitive with just replacing 1% of all engines, but maybe a good hedge for them. I don't know what those parts cost but assuming intake, 2 per cylinder, 12 overall and probably 2-3 hours of labor? Someone who has done this repair would have to comment if that's a reasonable estimate.

12 valves at $100 apiece = $1200
3 hours labor ($125 x 3 = $375)
$1575 per vehicle x 50,000 = $78,750,000

All numbers are just for perspective since so many people are clamoring for a recall. I think it all comes down to how much liability is on the road for Ford.

If it turned out to be valves, I bet they just send out whole heads. It would be less work/billable hours. If you send out 4 valves per cylinder (or maybe just 2 if you figure out if it was intake or exhaust and not both) you're looking at several hours of labor to remove and replace valves, keepers, retainers, and springs, not to mention, hopefully they replace the seats or at the very least lap the new valves into the old seats. They can essentially core the return heads and then replace everything at Lima (or wherever) to then send that old head out with new hardware (assuming the heads are good). That's the way I'd do it anyway. Seems like it would be quicker to just unbolt head, put on new head, check cam timing and be done. Plus some mechanics at the dealerships give zero f*cks, so less to do might be less warranty work long term.

I had an early LS6 in my CTS-V and broke a valve spring (did not drop a valve). I did all the springs with the heads on, and it took about 4 hours, and thats only 2 valves per cylinder, mostly because the way that car was packaged its like trying to fit 10lbs of shit in a 2 lbs bag under the hood. So I think your projection for 2-3 hours would be per head, but if anyone has alldata or mitchell that would be how many hours is billed and what they'd likely base the pricing on for cost calculations. Granted it would have been easier to do springs with the heads off, but I didn't want to get new gaskets (and risk a well sealed head becoming a blown head gasket nightmare) and fasteners since GM uses torque to yield hardware on their crap.

 

[JPye]

Unfortunately down here people tend to panic and stop in whatever lane they are in on the interstate. People also have no respect for amber lights or emergency vehicles. Georgia has a move over law but I rarely see it enforced. I was sitting on a very small shoulder with my hazards on and people were still flying by at 80+.

You will get a ticket here if you do not move over and reduce speed when a car/emergency vehicle is on the shoulder. I think you have to be at 35kph if you can't get out of the right lane and into the left lane when passing an emergency vehicle on the shoulder. Most drivers here will move over to the left and reduce their speed a bit ... some will unfortunately slow way down and then move over to the left creating a hazard. It is pretty dangerous being on the side of a highway with cars and trucks passing at 80+. BTW, perhaps you know why German cars have their gas fill door on the passenger side. Pretty smart. Why do American cars still have their fill doors on the left side? I guess the designers have never run out of gas on the highway. Well, neither have but it is still a good idea to put it on the passenger side.

 

[JPye]

If it turned out to be valves, I bet they just send out whole heads. It would be less work/billable hours. If you send out 4 valves per cylinder (or maybe just 2 if you figure out if it was intake or exhaust and not both) you're looking at several hours of labor to remove and replace valves, keepers, retainers, and springs, not to mention, hopefully they replace the seats or at the very least lap the new valves into the old seats. They can essentially core the return heads and then replace everything at Lima (or wherever) to then send that old head out with new hardware (assuming the heads are good). That's the way I'd do it anyway. Seems like it would be quicker to just unbolt head, put on new head, check cam timing and be done. Plus some mechanics at the dealerships give zero f*cks, so less to do might be less warranty work long term.

I had an early LS6 in my CTS-V and broke a valve spring (did not drop a valve). I did all the springs with the heads on, and it took about 4 hours, and thats only 2 valves per cylinder, mostly because the way that car was packaged its like trying to fit 10lbs of shit in a 2 lbs bag under the hood. So I think your projection for 2-3 hours would be per head, but if anyone has alldata or mitchell that would be how many hours is billed and what they'd likely base the pricing on for cost calculations. Granted it would have been easier to do springs with the heads off, but I didn't want to get new gaskets (and risk a well sealed head becoming a blown head gasket nightmare) and fasteners since GM uses torque to yield hardware on their crap.

I think I would have higher confidence that the job was "Done Right" if they swapped out the whole head as you suggest.

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