2-Door Bronco Previewed to Dealers with Retro Styling, Removable Top and Doors

BroncoMike

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
566
Reaction score
813
Location
Arizona
Vehicle(s)
'71 Bronco, '02 Excursion
So basically, your comparison is that a modified FJ Cruiser out performed a bone stock 4 door Jeep with open diffs and street tires, and your conclusion is that the Jeep must be inferior because it has a solid axle? Granted the 4 doors are long pigs, but try your comparison again with a Jeep that has a similar amount of modification and a skilled driver and tell me how superior your FJ Cruiser performs.,
My observation exactly. A low-optioned previous generation Jeep with no modifications...

Hey, maybe I don't expect a lot due to all the well-used trucks I've had. I drive a 250k mile Excursion daily. Explorer, Sierra 1500 regularly. But I've had a broad array of luxury cars over the years, and can appreciate superb ride quality. Because I would like to see the Bronco beat the Wrangler at what has been ceded by the industry to become it's own game, I would like to see it more than competitive in all aspects - hard wheeling included. To do that, it will require similar hardware. A small degree of diminished ride quality isn't going to affect sales to a huge degree - Wrangler is the unrefutable proof of that.

I fear I'm going to be disappointed, as even Ford has indicated that rock crawling is not their target. It will still sell by the truckloads, but the blue oval will be as rare as any brand other than Jeep on the hardcore wheeling trails - and that image is what makes Jeep people the rabid, brand-loyal repeat buyers they are.
 

Stampede.Offroad

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2018
Messages
1,336
Reaction score
1,765
Location
SD
Vehicle(s)
junk
It has been a few years since I've driven a Jeep, but it is my understanding that the JL redesign made major strides in comfort and handling performance compared to the JK and earlier series. Even 10+ year old SFA heavy duty trucks don't ride like the old lumber wagons they used to, manufacturer's have figured out how to implement these better. Ford isn't going to be comparing their newly designed newly released 2021 Bronco to a 10, 20, or 30 year old discontinued competitor. Right now Jeep and Toyota are both experiencing record sales numbers for their most off road capable models.

With the resurgence of interest in midsize trucks, and increased competition and variety of choices, even the long unrivaled Taco has seen increases in its sales numbers as the whole market segment expands. I hope to see something similar with the re-introduction of the Bronco. All the manufacturers will have to work harder to be the 'best' at whatever market segment they're trying to capture, and if consumers don't think X is better than Y, even if they aren't using 10% of its capability, they'll vote with their dollars.

Rumor from the 2020 Escape preview is that the Maverick/"Baby Bronco" built on the Escape platform is going to target the Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk (Cherokee is Jeep's second best seller). We will need more info from Ford before we can understand how far above that the Bronco is supposed to slot in capability, but I think it would be foolish not to compete directly with a SFA unless they have some magical moon buggy IFS planned.

.
http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/jeep/jeep-wrangler/
Wrangler sales figures.png

.
4Runner sales figures.png

.
Cherokee sales figures.png


.
 

007-FJC

Member
First Name
Mo
Joined
Nov 14, 2018
Messages
22
Reaction score
28
Location
Modesto, CA
Vehicle(s)
Toyota FJ Cruiser, Toyota 4Runner, Lexus LS, Peterbilt, V8 Cressida
]Seriously? A JL is a "chore" to drive, but a Superduty "does just fine." Dude, you are blinded by your Jeep hate. A JL definitely rides and drives better than a Superduty.

From what I have seen, solid axle lift kits are typically cheaper than IFS liftkits of the same quality. Having done quite a bit of suspension work myself, I would rather work with a solid axle. You are insane if you think the average wheeler would consider paying a shop to swap in a solid axle is a viable option. That is a lot of labor hours to pay for, especially if there isn't a commercial kit to simplify the process.

So basically, your comparison is that a modified FJ Cruiser out performed a bone stock 4 door Jeep with open diffs and street tires, and your conclusion is that the Jeep must be inferior because it has a solid axle? Granted the 4 doors are long pigs, but try your comparison again with a Jeep that has a similar amount of modification and a skilled driver and tell me how superior your FJ Cruiser performs.,
My response for the Super Duty was to the person who stated if Ford can pull off a solid axle as good as Jeep. BTW, I own and daily drive a vehicle with 3 solid axles and its called a Peterbilt. That same Peterbilt is buying me a new Bronco which you have came on here to heavily criticize a vehicle you haven't even seen yet. As for comparing a modded FJ to a stock jeep, it wasn't offroad capability, it was how shitty a JKU rides. If you've ever driven a stock JKU and Stock FJ/4R, you'd know how archaic a Jeep drives. I'm not even hating on the Jeep as I respect it for what it is, I just don't think its respectable for FORTY THOUSAND DOLLARS. Heck, the new Gladiator will sell for over $60,000 fully loaded!

As for Australia, it's as flat as the earth is. The modification laws are strict but not impossible. Here's some OZ action for you to enjoy:


Your pictures of CJs, XJ and TJ extremely modified so regardless of what vehicle you buy, it's going to go under the scalpel to do some crazy trails like that. Thats beater status 4wheeling. I'm not on here to bash the SFA, I'm here arguing against the IFS ignorance. Last year I almost ordered a base 2 door JL with a 6 speed MT but I decided to hold off until I see what Ford was going to offer. There's the black Sahara I test drove on the left. So no, I'm not a Toyota or Ford fan boy as I'm in the market for a SWB 4x4 and currently Toyota offers me nothing to add to my fleet which is why I went to Jeep in the first place.

Ip5a0vX.jpg


And yes, they sell Jeeps in Australia.

 

OX1

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jim
Joined
May 25, 2017
Messages
517
Reaction score
407
Location
jackson nj
Vehicle(s)
59 Bird, 70, 74, 78, 79 Broncos, 86 Capri 5.0, 14 Stang GT, 17 Fusion Sport
If you need more proof, Youtube it yourself.
Prove what? How easy it would be to use those videos to treat Insomnia?
I guess you have to practice maximum survivability if you need to drive several hours
to a trail, or between them (and home again). But if I have to wheel like that, I'd rather
stay home and play Chess.

This is my typical wheeling speed (many times you HAVE to get into way harder than this)

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/RAUSCH CREEK/22 MAR 09/MOV02070.MPG


I've never seen any IFS rigs, on 35-38's, getting after it on moss, mud, and
wet leave covered, slippery east coast rocks. This is a stock narrowed 60 front, but
that's the only drivetrain mod (still 5 lug rear). This guy is a nut job, but he sure is fun
to watch, and didn't break anything wheeling like that all day long (he did roll a second
time though).

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/RAUSCH CREEK/29 NOV 08/MOV02004.MPG

I don't have to continually keep aligning it, but I have aligned it after each major suspension/steering change. It holds its alignment just fine.
Well, you are one of the lucky one's. There is a reason there are over a million posts here.

https://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/29-solid-axle-swaps/

I don't see any IFS swap sections/posts in either of these places, wonder why??

https://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/6-1978-79-bronco-tech/
https://classicbroncos.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=42

My brand new 88 Bronco II pulled on the highway since day 1.
3 different dealers, and no one could fix it, they just made it worse.
I wrote this article (back in 90, not sure why it says 98) out of having
to learn how to do alignments, from necessity.

http://www.off-road.com/trucks-4x4/how-to-bronco-ttb-front-end-alignment-18406.html

I finally did get it to go mostly straight, but not every day. As I mentioned, toss a bunch of
gear/people in the rear, and now your toe and camber are all out. Made it wander all over
@ highway speeds. I did finally go body lift and 31's (and 4.56's), extremely mild
combo on even for an EB D30 solid axle front. That just made it drive way worse and
never did go down the road consistently straight.

scan0013.jpg



TTB was always better for ride quality and extreme jumps, but that's about it, onroad or off.........
 
Last edited:

007-FJC

Member
First Name
Mo
Joined
Nov 14, 2018
Messages
22
Reaction score
28
Location
Modesto, CA
Vehicle(s)
Toyota FJ Cruiser, Toyota 4Runner, Lexus LS, Peterbilt, V8 Cressida
Wait, so you guys are saying you've never ever seen an IFS truck with tires bigger than 37s and bashing through boulders? 3rd gen Taco with 40x13.5s. I'm pretty sure the only limiting factor to those crazy videos of yours is the wheelbase of this taco. But of course even if this taco crawled over those boulders in your video, it'd be super boring because he's taking forever.


If you're going to do those kinds of "trails," you guys are going to be modifying the hell out of the rig doing it. So if the Bronco doesn't have a solid axle, then whats stopping you from torching the IFS crap off and installing one tons front and rear? A stock Wrangler or Bronco of any vintage will not be able to drive through any of those hard core rock walls. You guys proving what exactly by posting heavily modded rigs and trying to discredit an IFS truck? Let me guess, you guys are the minority of 4 wheelers who have a different standard of what a 4x4 should be able to do? The proof to my videos is IFS isn't a weak link, its a limiting factor to major flex but lockers front and rear tends to keep progress rolling. I personally would never beat the crap out of my rig crawling over a maze of boulders no matter what I drive so while I do admire the cool rigs bouncing over house sized boulders, your idea of 4wheeling differs than the majority who want a reliable and capable system to make it from point a to point b and not just go race and bounce over competition rock walls at an event then come home and attack the badly beaten rig with welders and replacement parts.
 

BroncoMike

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
566
Reaction score
813
Location
Arizona
Vehicle(s)
'71 Bronco, '02 Excursion
I think this discussion comes down to compromise on either end, for either configuration: IFS can be less than ideal for the most demanding offroading, and solid axle can leave something to be desired in road handling qualities. To do serious offroading, either will require substantial upgrades. And chances are good that any poor road manners can be tamed to a certain degree with aftermarket applications, though the market for them will be minimal and few will brag about having to correct the OEM suspenion on their tough new truck so it handles better on the weekly pilgrammage to the Golden Corral, so it's a difficult space to market in.

The bottom line is, where has Ford decided to make the compromise? If they have an IFS, a small segment of the customer base who actually uses an offroad vehicle to its limits will be disappointed, and the brand won't benefit from the "Trail Rated" image upon which the entire Jeep lineup has capitalized. Worse, it will always be derided as a "nice try", second fiddle to the Wrangler, which it appears Ford has in their crosshairs. The downside of a solid axle is some bashing on handling/ride quality which, justified or not, will be largely dismissed in the outdoor community as whining from sissies that shouldn't have bought a "real truck". Solid front axle Broncos may go on to sell as many or more units as the Wrangler regardless of on-road mannerisms enroute to Dillards.

Until adapted in the later years, Broncos were not cushy luxury machines designed for a trip to the opera - they were work and play trucks that left a lot of creature comforts in the design and engineering shredder bins in favor of ruggedness and performance. A customer who wants an urban limosine with tough looks has a sea of options; and while the truth is that a few have actual credible off-road capability, facts and sensibility aren't what sells cars in the American market - it's passion.

The origins of passion frequently elude logic, definition, or description; but for many, passion unashamedly flaunts a solid front axle.
 

Dirty Bronco

Well-Known Member
First Name
Brad
Joined
Jan 28, 2019
Messages
110
Reaction score
204
Location
Cleveland
Vehicle(s)
2015 Ford Explorer
Hey guys, just wanted to throw in my own personal experiences on this topic. I owned a JK Rubicon in Arizona and trailed with it often. I now own a Ford Explorer and live in Cleveland Ohio. I drive ford pickups every other day at work and my girlfriend and I heavily test drove Wrangler JLs when they first came out.

1. Going from the 2 door JK to the Ford Explorer was a let down at first. I liked the ride height of the JK and the quickness I felt I had with the 2 door.
2. It was no comparison though on ride quality. I was going from a 2 door JK in Arizona where the roads are nice and smooth to Cleveland where the roads are pot hole/patched every 10 feet.
3. There was a noticeable upgrade in ride quality form the JK to the JL but the JL is still no where near the Explorer. I could feel the vehicle pulling and so could my girlfriend.
4. My company has all Ford pickups for our line of work. I've driven F-150s from the year 13-18. I enjoy them but still the ride quality of solid axles compared to the Ford Explorer is just "different". They will never be the same and that's fine!
 

BroncoMike

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
566
Reaction score
813
Location
Arizona
Vehicle(s)
'71 Bronco, '02 Excursion
4. My company has all Ford pickups for our line of work. I've driven F-150s from the year 13-18. I enjoy them but still the ride quality of solid axles compared to the Ford Explorer is just "different". They will never be the same and that's fine!
Are you saying that the 13-18 F-150s have a lower quality ride compared to the Explorer due to solid axles?
 

Dirty Bronco

Well-Known Member
First Name
Brad
Joined
Jan 28, 2019
Messages
110
Reaction score
204
Location
Cleveland
Vehicle(s)
2015 Ford Explorer
Are you saying that the 13-18 F-150s have a lower quality ride compared to the Explorer due to solid axles?
Sorry, meant to say F-250**. We have F-150s but only the 250 heavy duty's are the solid axle ones. We have a full fleet of Ford vehicles.
 

BroncoMike

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
566
Reaction score
813
Location
Arizona
Vehicle(s)
'71 Bronco, '02 Excursion
Okay, glad you corrected that. Still, you're comparing a car to a truck.

I would expect a difference in ride quality between a front wheel-drive unibody family car and that of a body-on-frame commercial-duty truck capable of towing 12000+ pounds and capable of hauling 40 or more bags of Sakrete safely in the bed. Since they are two entirely different animals, I'm not certain I would place ALL the blame on the differences in the axle design. If you downsized the F250 and its components to Explorer-like towing (less than half that of the F250) and payload while maintaining the same suspension type, adding cushy shocks and load range C all-season tires at 32psi, I don't think one would notice as much of a difference.

Like you, I'm okay with a different ride from a vehicle with different capabilities. Some people aren't okay with that, and they are forced to make a compromise somewhere else.
 

OX1

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jim
Joined
May 25, 2017
Messages
517
Reaction score
407
Location
jackson nj
Vehicle(s)
59 Bird, 70, 74, 78, 79 Broncos, 86 Capri 5.0, 14 Stang GT, 17 Fusion Sport
I am not lucky. Any TTB can drive fine if maintained properly. The biggest reasons TTB gets a bad rap is old trucks with worn out parts and improperly modified suspensions.
I worked in a local shop in the early 80's. I got to see plenty of these new or barely used.
Ford warantee was only 12/12K back then, so when they were not right, they didn't all go back to Ford.

IF you do nothing but drive down perfectly straight smooth roads with the smallest tire (235), then maybe.
As soon as you load up gear, tow, put plow on or off, as you have shown, you get severe toe changes that tears
up tires.

I agree, many issues on older lifted trucks were worn parts. But stock TTB's wear parts faster than SA, RA, as the entire
geometry is constantly working against itself. Tie rods not correct arc vs traction beams, Radius arms too short (much shorter
than stock SA rad arm susp), constant camber changes. Even a minor spring settling more on one corner than
the other, and you have cross caster issues. Most swapped out TTB to get rid of these issues, not to gain
strength, as most went to a 70's full size D44.

We can agree to disagree, but TTB gets a bad rap for way more than worn parts.

Wait, so you guys are saying you've never ever seen an IFS truck with tires bigger than 37s and bashing through boulders?
Stop posting up videos of perfectly dry, high traction terrain. Near me, even if it's not totally wet,
there is still low traction rocks, moss, wet leaves, slippery barkless trees, and mud tracked all over
everything.

I wheeled recently with some toys and they busted CV's left and right, doing very stuff you show in these videos.
So some of you had said they use weak parts. So lets see some vids of IFS (even beefed up stock configurations)
GETTIN it. It is pretty easy for many backyards to mounts and swap/upgrade a solid axle. Not so much if you
have to fab control arms that hold ball joints and bushings.
 

phillyfx4

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2016
Messages
166
Reaction score
191
Location
Phila., PA
FWIW..... on youtube this morning - solid axles front and rear and other info i.e. powered by an ecoboost engine, 7 speed manual etc......

@ the 1:45 mark

 

OX1

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jim
Joined
May 25, 2017
Messages
517
Reaction score
407
Location
jackson nj
Vehicle(s)
59 Bird, 70, 74, 78, 79 Broncos, 86 Capri 5.0, 14 Stang GT, 17 Fusion Sport
solid axles front and rear
I really don't believe it and will be stunned if it happens.
Mainly because Ford said it will not compete head to head in
rock crawling. Maybe they changed their mind.
 

BroncoMike

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
566
Reaction score
813
Location
Arizona
Vehicle(s)
'71 Bronco, '02 Excursion
Awesome - a slide show of recycled unofficial renderguesses, complete with synthetic voice repeating numerous previously known mundane details, rumors, and undocumented/unsubstantiated speculation.
 

Top