2 inch rough country spacer lift: good or bad idea?

[Kameronatm]

Here you go...

Best I could do till it's out of the garage...

P.S.

Nice! Where dis you find the tires? I'm planning to wear the generals out and then upgrade...

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[contented]

OP, there are more posts here than I can count where folks have lifted their broncos, and don't seem to worry at all. We originally ordered an Outer Banks, non Sas. Planned to lift and add bigger tires. After much fretting about the dangers (changed driveline angles, etc.), we changed our order to SAS Badlands. Everything (driveline, gearing cv joints, speedometer, ABS, traction control, safety systems, etc) is designed to work together and covered by warranty.

I spent a LOT of time on Jeep forums researching this very topic. Horror stories abound. My take of the bottom line in the Jeep world is lifting, even when done "right" (read expensive) causes accelerated wear and breakage. It's just a tolerated, expensive fact of life.

Newton's third law of physics says, "for every action there is an opposite an equal reaction". And I believe its applicable here. Used to own a 2017 Mini Cooper S convertible. It was all the rage to add coilovers and lower, fat rear sway bar and tuning box. Seemed like everybody did it. I did all three (the actions). The car cornered and handled like a go kart. Very peppy too. A hoot to drive. All good. Put coilovers on at 20k miles. The bad - when I lowered the car more than 3/4 in, it instantly had a vibration in the front end ultimately traced to changed cv joint wear patterns (angles) cause by lowering. And it became a scrape magnet (opposite reaction). The tuning box, omg amazing increase in performance. The bad (opposite reaction) it would on rare occasions throw a code and put the car into limp mode. Always at the most inopportune time. Required a trip to the dealer to reset. You get the point, the actions (upgrades) gave both good and bad (opposite) reactions.

The debate rages on here over what constitutes lifting, part numbers, dana axles used, etc, etc. If you're willing to take the risk and can afford to fix failures, have at it.

Me, I'm staying stock. Enjoy your Bronc when you get it.

contented

 

[orion]

Think of it this way. Without the spacer, you sit in a neutral position and have a certain amount of movement both ways. When you add a spacer, especially the ones that only go on top of the coilover, you change that neutral position to being in constant droop. Even though that angle was within the normal range of movement at stock, it wasn't at that angle all the time. Then, add a little more droop and you start to get at some unhealthy angles pretty quick.

Normally, full droop on a stock setup is at low speeds on the trail. You just don't get there very often in normal situations. Throw on a top plate spacer and you will see full droop a lot more often and in situations that can overly stress the CV.

You got this wrong. We are only changing the point at which the coilover is mounted. We are gaining 2 inches of ground clearance by pushing the lower control arm down and still have all of the original travel of the coilover. Nothing changes with the travel of the coilover. We did change where that travel happens but did not reduce it. I would say we are sitting at where a Sasquatch Bronco is sitting but with less overall travel due to the base coilovers.
Now if we went with a heightened spring perch lift, yes we would be compressing the spring in order to get the lift and be at a different neutral state. All of the Bronco's suspensions are the same. The only difference is how tall and how much travel the coilovers have from Base, Badlands, and Sasquatch. If you look at the lower control arm angle of a Hitachi sprung Bronco and compare it to a Badlands Bilstein sprung Bronco, you will see a difference. Hitachi is almost flat. Badlands/Sasquatch are noticeably pointing downward.

Post installation, my tires were toed in bad and had very positive camber. If I was to install take offs from a Badlands/Sasquatch, I would still have that and would need to get an alignment.

 

[orion]

Nice! Where dis you find the tires? I'm planning to wear the generals out and then upgrade...

eBay. $1500 shipped for 5. Couldn't pass that up. It seems that the skinny 35's are hard to find. I wanted the 255/85r17's of the Mickey Thompson Baja Boss but they are non existent. These are the Kenda Klever RT 35/10.50r17's.

 

[kodiakisland]

You got this wrong. We are only changing the point at which the coilover is mounted. We are gaining 2 inches of ground clearance. Pushing the lower control arm down and still have all of the original travel of the coilover. Now if we went with a heightened spring perch lift, yes we would be compressing the spring in order to get the lift and be at a different neutral state. All of the Bronco's suspensions are the same. The only difference is how tall and how much travel the coilovers have from Base, Badlands, and Sasquatch. If you look at the lower control arm angle of a Hitachi sprung Bronco and compare it to a Badlands Bilstein sprung Bronco, you will see a difference. Hitachi is almost flat. Badlands/Sasquatch are noticeably pointing downward.

Post installation, my tires were toed in bad and had very positive camber. If I was to install take offs from a Badlands/Sasquatch, I would still have that and would need to get an alignment.

No, your CV is no longer in a neutral position with a top plate spacer. It is in droop all the time. You don't raise the vehicle 2 inches with a spacer without affecting the CV angle. Then, when you bottom out the suspension, the CV angle is beyond what it would normally be at full droop. There is no free lunch here. You aren't getting something for nothing.

 

[orion]

No, your CV is no longer in a neutral position with a top plate spacer. It is in droop all the time. You don't raise the vehicle 2 inches with a spacer without affecting the CV angle.

So a Badlands/Sasquatch cv angle isn't neutral? Your telling me if I installed takeoffs I would still have a neutral cv angle?

A-arms pointed down slightly

Flat A-arms

 

[kodiakisland]

So a Badlands/Sasquatch cv angle isn't neutral?

We're talking about top plate spacers. Do they come with spacers?

 

[orion]

We're talking about top plate spacers. Do they come with spacers?

Um no, but they come with taller coilovers in order to get the lift needed for bigger tires, thus pushing the a-arms down, thus putting, in your veiw, the cv's in un-neutral state...

Yes, they aren't at a neutral state but neither are Badlands and Sasquatch models. We're still within factory specs is all I'm saying.

I added pictures to my last post.

 

[kodiakisland]

Um no, but they come with taller coilovers in order to get the lift needed for bigger tires, thus pushing the a-arms down, thus putting, in your veiw, the cv's in un-neutral state...

I added pictures to my last post.

First off, I just want to say it doesn't matter to me which route anyone goes. It's their bronco and their money.

The CVs on any IFS vehicle are designed to work within a certain range. The outer edges of that range are not the same as the middle, where they are designed to spend most of their time. When you purposefully change where you are doing most of your work, they can't be expected to perform to the same standard. As some on here have already found out, the CV can fail easier when it does more of it's work on those outer limits.

We are talking about changing the stock suspension 2 inches. There is not a 2 inch difference between the Hitachi and either of the Bilstein coilovers. Yes, going from one to the other obviously changes the CV angle, but not as much as a 2 inch spacer would.

My point of skipping the spacer and buying takeoff Bilsteins is two fold. One you just get a better quality shock. Two is you get a modest lift but still stay within the designed parameters of the CV. If you want a 2 inch spacer to run 33s and still have the Hitachis, it's Ok with me. It wouldn't be my choice, and in fact it wasn't because I went with the Badland coilovers for 33s.

 

[22OBX]

Curious...what is the cost of the Bilstein Badlands coil overs and do you think they will be similar to the Ford Lift coil overs that are due out soon? Based on the cost of the Ranger coil overs I'm guessing the Bronco ones to be around $1500

 

[orion]

First off, I just want to say it doesn't matter to me which route anyone goes. It's their bronco and their money.

The CVs on any IFS vehicle are designed to work within a certain range. The outer edges of that range and not the same as the middle, where they are designed to spend most of their time. When you purposefully change where you are doing most of your work, they can't be expected to perform to the same standard. As some on here have already found out, the CV can fail easier when it does more of it's work on those outer limits.

We are talking about changing the stock suspension 2 inches. There is not a 2 inch difference between the Hitachi and either of the Bilstein coilovers. Yes, going from one to the other obviously changes the CV angle, but not as much as a 2 inch spacer would.

My point of skipping the spacer and buying takeoff Bilsteins is two fold. One you just get a better quality shock. Two is you get a modest lift but still stay within the designed parameters of the CV. If you want a 2 inch spacer to run 33s and still have the Hitachis, it's Ok with me. It wouldn't be my choice, and in fact it wasn't because I went with the Badland coilovers for 33s.

The only reason I posted was because you said installing take offs wouldn't change angles but these spacers will. Both will. Yes, these spacer might change them a little more but nothing significant compared to a Sasquatch.

For me, this is a temporary solution to a full coilover 2" lift. Waiting for more options on that front... I'm waiting to see what Fun Haver-RTR come out with...

 

[johnbu]

@blackdiamondog I did exactly what you are talking about. I had the dealership put the RC kit on to not void the warranty and added 33s to the steelies. I am over 4K miles and don’t plan on any heavy duty off-roading. @BudgetBronco has been a good resource on your future plans. Check out his YouTube videos to see what you can do on a budget. Here is my Bronco with zero issues.

before with lift stock tires

after

Nice Job. Was the lift required to fit the new tires or did you just like the look?

 

[Bscholl8]

Nice Job. Was the lift required to fit the new tires or did you just like the look?

@johnbu no lift required. Just liked the look. If you want to see/hear about no lift with 33s go check out @BudgetBronco. He has a YouTube page on his build with no lift and a few more add ons.

 

[johnbu]

@johnbu no lift required. Just liked the look. If you want to see/hear about no lift with 33s go check out @BudgetBronco. He has a YouTube page on his build with no lift and a few more add ons.

Thank you

 

[DANGL3]

its not the lift itself im worried about. I have read about the weak cv joint and dont know if that was going to be an issue or not.

Just got mine back from the shop and had to have a new front-left axle put on. CV joint started to fail before I even installed the 2" RCX lift on. They didn't care or even ask if the lift caused it because of the CV joint being known to fail. Warranty covered it.

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