2021 Bronco engines - I need at least a V6

[jamanrr]

I actually read their review before I bought the truck, I believe it is wrong. I believe they tested that truck in regular drive mode and did not test it through the gears. Put the truck in sport mode and watch it start off in second gear of the 10 speed and not first. I also believe their towing experiment to be wrong as well. Again I have owned both trucks and know F150s well.

I am sure you love the v8s and that is great, but as I have owned both. I can tell you for me and highway driving combined with light to medium offroad use the Power stroke F150 is better for me. I do not have to have a sound machine from 8 cylinders to make me feel like I have a truck I also believe the gen 1 raptor to be superior to the gen 2, not because it is slower but because it could take more abuse off road which is funny cause 99 percent of raptor owners dont go offroad anyway. My Raptor had mud over the hood before probably would not do the same with the diesel 150 but I have gone off farm roads and muddy field roads and it has done just fine. Also ford does not promote the powersttoke f150, I believe they really dont want to sell them as the cost to convert to usa use was greater than they believe they can realize from the truck. This motor is not new ut served Europe Ford and Landrover HSEs for years. It is a proven diesel design.

And your argument about towing and grades is wrong and laughable, why is it then that 18 wheelers are diesel powered and not running in gasoline?

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[BONESTOCK]

You two are correct, the 2.7L and 3.0L V6 Ecoboost engines are the new "Nano" family and not the Cyclone/Duratec family like the 3.5L Ecoboost. However, I would be surprised if the manufacturing cost between the two differed significantly regardless of differences in block material.

As far as longevity goes, block material is not typically a factor. The pistons do not directly contact the aluminum of an aluminum block.

Also, the 2.7L is not faster than the 5.0L. See an earlier post I made with Car and Driver's test results here: https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/threads/as-yet-unseen-bronco-prototype-codenamed-“rock-monster”-2-7-v6-confirmed-and-more-tflcar.742/page-2#post-9868

This fact is also reflected in the tow ratings for the two engines.



No one has questioned your fuel economy figures. The fact is that diesel fuel is more expensive, urea costs money, and diesel oil changes and maintenance are generally more expensive. This is all on top of an initial purchase cost that far exceeds the 5.0L's. I have run the numbers for HD trucks, and it would take about 400,000 miles to break even on the diesel, and that is only if you neglect the time value of money.

Talking about what people have achieved with modified vehicles is pointless, but if you want to go that route, show me a 3.0L diesel that can keep up with a 5.0L with a run of the mill aftermarket supercharger setup. I am dead serious. I am genuinely interested to see what it would take. Bottom line, gas engines will always outperform diesels in performance applications, and bigger engines always have more potential than smaller engines.

Funny you mention your 10 second 4 cylinder. I have a buddy who used to race a 9 second Evo with somewhere around 800HP. He had to rebuild the engine every year because the crank and rod bearings would be worn out. More cylinders with lower specific outputs are a lot easier on bearings, rods, pistons, and head gaskets. A 5.0L Mustang with a supercharger or turbo charger could easily make the same horsepower, run the same times, and last a lot longer doing it.

Also....weird why Ford bothered with the 7.3L if diesel is the best.

 

[TeocaliMG]

Also....weird why Ford bothered with the 7.3L if diesel is the best.

I have not read most of this thread since it is wayyyyy too long, but to answer your question: Cost. The diesel has a huge upfront cost, in many applications the payoff takes too long, so the customer will take the cheaper engine. The 7.3 was made to offer a cheaper alternative to the diesel that can get some semblance of respectable fuel economy when under heavy load. If dollars don't matter, the diesel is better, but dollars do matter so to each his own.

Edit: This thread has been beating a dead horse, it is clear that the coyote, 2.7 eb and 3.0 diesel all serve different purposes and each thrive in it. The question of 6.7 diesel vs 7.3 is more simply answered when balancing dollars with use case.

 

[jamanrr]

They still offer the 6.2 liter motor in the Superduty, while most still take the 6.7 liter Powerstroke. Customers do buy gas burners in the Superduty and diesels in the F150. They do sale, and I am not sure the down side is as much as you all make it out to be or else they would not be offering diesels in a board range of vehicles.

 

[TeocaliMG]

Sometimes horses need to be pulverized to combat ignorance. Had the original claim been along the lines of, "I bought an F150 with the 3.0L diesel and I get great fuel economy and love the low end torque. It also makes a competent towing engine and I think it would be a great option for the new Bronco." I would have never responded. My issue it that he is perpetuating the misconception that torque is what matters, not horsepower, and is claiming that his diesel is faster and can tow better up a grade than all the other F150 gas engine options which is untrue.

I completely agree, torque is overrated, at least when not put into perspective with engine speed. The two come together as power, and THAT is what matters, when people say torque matters, what they really mean, and what they really feel is decent power at very low RPM delivered consistently through the powerband. I don't think you disagree there. I will point out that "reliability problems with modern diesels" is a bit of a red herring now. 10 years ago, absolutely, there were a ton of growing pains with emissions systems. Look at the integration of EGR systems in the 6.0 and 6.4 (non ford diesels), take them off and they are as good as the old 7.3, actually wayyyy better. The 6.7 has had far less issues across the board (EGR system is solid actually), and this is true of most manufacturers. Emissions systems will always add cost over no system at all but the reliability is not near as bad as 10 years ago. General service will still be more expensive though, more oil/coolant to change for example.

 

[jamanrr]

You responded probably well because you wanted to drop what looks like useless knowledge on us all, I never said it was the best F150 engine available. There are other options such as the v8 and the 3,5 liter eco boost, the v8 coyote is pretty much tapped out the way it is and the 3.5 liter does not respond to modifications well. This is not the 60s and 70s, combined with the fact that the new diesel with a Green Diesel tune makes upwards of 400 HP and around 800 ft. lbs of torque and this is on a delete so consider yourself the winner of the Bronco troll board award and you win. I am wrong so please respond or don't respond since I am done with this thread and really have no interest in what you know or don't know.

I suspect three engines will be available in this new bronco, the 2.3 liter turbo, a v6 of some sort and maybe just maybe after a year or two a small modern diesel. EIther way happy trails to you.….

 

[JimmyDean]

I completely agree, torque is overrated, at least when not put into perspective with engine speed. The two come together as power, and THAT is what matters, when people say torque matters, what they really mean, and what they really feel is decent power at very low RPM delivered consistently through the powerband. I don't think you disagree there. I will point out that "reliability problems with modern diesels" is a bit of a red herring now. 10 years ago, absolutely, there were a ton of growing pains with emissions systems. Look at the integration of EGR systems in the 6.0 and 6.4 (non ford diesels), take them off and they are as good as the old 7.3, actually wayyyy better. The 6.7 has had far less issues across the board (EGR system is solid actually), and this is true of most manufacturers. Emissions systems will always add cost over no system at all but the reliability is not near as bad as 10 years ago. General service will still be more expensive though, more oil/coolant to change for example.

Eh, I have constant issues with the 6.0, even after bulletproofing. I have to pull the top of the engine off next week to replace all of the O-rings on the injectors and replace standpipes to fix a high pressure oil leak that won't let me restart the engine when oil temps are above 160 (oil gets too thin to build pressure when hot). I am just hoping I don't have to go all the way down to the STC fitting, that is supposed to already be the upgraded unit. From when I had to get a new motor because the f'ing block cracked. A month after the heads were replaced due to a crack. I'm also on the 3rd turbo, went with the powermax this time, no issues in 4 years since. Earlier this year the electrical system fried, I've also replaced alternator twice in 6 years, and batteries 3 times. the HPOP got replaced by Ford in February when she left me stranded at the dealer (but this I have a problem with Ford, it is the exact same issues I'm currently having, starts fine cold, won't start hot, and they claimed it was the HPOP, but after that didn't fix it, and I did some research, the results have been unanimous that the HPOP was never the issue, its a blown o-ring on injectors or standpipes, or the STC fitting) I've had a plethora of other non-engine issues, just did hubs and cluster last month, completely unrelated. Last 5 years that engine has cost me more than the truck, but it's almost always just a little at a time so it didn't justify just scrapping her. I've also got to fix a hanging brake issue on the passenger front, a rear diff oil leak, and front end bushing are popping.

 

[JimmyDean]

You responded probably well because you wanted to drop what looks like useless knowledge on us all, I never said it was the best F150 engine available. There are other options such as the v8 and the 3,5 liter eco boost, the v8 coyote is pretty much tapped out the way it is and the 3.5 liter does not respond to modifications well. This is not the 60s and 70s, combined with the fact that the new diesel with a Green Diesel tune makes upwards of 400 HP and around 800 ft. lbs of torque and this is on a delete so consider yourself the winner of the Bronco troll board award and you win. I am wrong so please respond or don't respond since I am done with this thread and really have no interest in what you know or don't know.

I suspect three engines will be available in this new bronco, the 2.3 liter turbo, a v6 of some sort and maybe just maybe after a year or two a small modern diesel. EIther way happy trails to you.….

I haven't responded much, BUT, the diesel mods add another what, 3-4k? On top of the 4k adder for the diesel to start with? You're at 8k in. and the coyote in the truck is nowhere near tapped out. people are getting very streetable 700+hp out of that motor with about 8k (so 3-400 hp over the diesel at the same price point) albeit with less torque than the diesel, at around 650-700. but it is under warranty still with something like the Roush S/C.

 

[Hack]

I think anyone that is seriously banking on a V8 in a midsize vehicle at this point is kidding themselves. It’s just not needed, as much as I’d like one too there’s just no practical reason and a lot of reasons that make it very impractical.

The Bronco and SUVs in general are not practical. Well - small SUVs are practical, but for the most part anything larger than an Escape people buy because they want it, not because they need it.

I probably am not a buyer for the Bronco, because I'm not super into SUVs. But when a vehicle is really cool I find myself wanting one. I've been wanting a V8 Durango for a while, because they seem great to me. But it's a Dodge and I'm less inclined to buy a Dodge. I've always wanted an early Bronco, and some day I may have one - but it's tempting to buy the new Bronco as a substitute. I will only buy a new Bronco if I think it's really cool, though.

I believe that there will be a lot more people who WANT a Bronco if it has a V8 option. Not because V8s are practical, but because they are awesome.

 

[Jake_zx2]

A diesel will out pull and out live any v8 gas engine made if you don't believe go watch youtube for hours. There are guys already in the 600-700 ft lbs. of torque range with DPF deletes and tunes.

Funny, I've had many a diesel owner tell me this, but when they line up with my V8, they aren't anywhere close. I've never once had a diesel pull on my Mustang... even hopped up 1000ft-lb ones

It was actually a 25 psi 2 liter Nissan motor in a 240sx. I have a 2016 STI right now and it is you guessed it a 4 cylinder.

I also have a 240SX, but mine has a boosted I6. I also have a 4 banger car for which I'm currently building an engine on the side that'll be capable of well over 400whp. would I want either of those engines in my Mustang? Absolutely not

Your attitude towards V8s DOES reek of Subaru owner, though

the v8 coyote is pretty much tapped out the way it is

Excuse me, what? You do know that there are people making well in excess of 800whp on stock F150 coyotes with a bit of boost, right?

and the 3.5 liter does not respond to modifications well.

Excuse me, what? You do know that this is the same exact engine that makes over 600hp in the Ford GT, right?

FWIW, I also don't think that the new Bronco will get the V8 offered because I don't think it'll be feasible for Ford to do so. But 99% of what you are saying is absolute nonsense

 

[BroncoBuyer]

99% of what you are saying is absolute nonsense

That’s an understatement.

 

[BroncoBuyer]

Also....weird why Ford bothered with the 7.3L if diesel is the best.

Not everybody wants (or is able) to invest an extra $10k in a fleet truck to get the diesel.
Most people who would rather buy a gasser in fleet trucks are sick of the old and tired gas chugging underpowered V10.
I think it’s awesome that now there’s a real choice.
The choices to date were to buy a small block V8 in F250-350 or a dated old V10 in F450-550 and I think the 650. The 6.2 is just too small for heavy commercial duty towing and the 6.8 V10 was just getting too week and inefficient for the medium duty trucks by today’s standards.

The 7.3 big block will be for those who are skeptical at the thought of working a small block 6.2 that hard and those that cringe at the thought of high upfront costs, maintenance costs and fuel costs of the diesel.



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[jamanrr]

you guys crack me up, yeah go type in 500 hp STIs and see what they do to Lambos much less the vehicles you all drive. Utter nonsense is thinking the v8 is the end all be all of engines, true if I wanted a Mustang then it would be a v8 GT350 or even the new GT500. I however do not want a Mustang nor a Challenger. I have owned two STIs and this second one is as close to prefect setup for me. AWD plus DCCD controls plus being able to go fast around corners and not just in a straight line. For fun why don't you all go watch the Prodrive STI run the Isle of Man within 1 minute of a sport bike and yes I did say sport bike. Would like to see any v8 muscle car be able to do that period.

 

[BONESTOCK]

you guys crack me up, yeah go type in 500 hp STIs and see what they do to Lambos much less the vehicles you all drive. Utter nonsense is thinking the v8 is the end all be all of engines, true if I wanted a Mustang then it would be a v8 GT350 or even the new GT500. I however do not want a Mustang nor a Challenger. I have owned two STIs and this second one is as close to prefect setup for me. AWD plus DCCD controls plus being able to go fast around corners and not just in a straight line. For fun why don't you all go watch the Prodrive STI run the Isle of Man within 1 minute of a sport bike and yes I did say sport bike. Would like to see any v8 muscle car be able to do that period.

haha!! Wow! One race that I'd imagine is rarely even attempted by "V8 muscles" cars is what you bring up. hmmmm...how about records on all other tracks?

 

[Jake_zx2]

you guys crack me up, yeah go type in 500 hp STIs and see what they do to Lambos much less the vehicles you all drive. Utter nonsense is thinking the v8 is the end all be all of engines, true if I wanted a Mustang then it would be a v8 GT350 or even the new GT500. I however do not want a Mustang nor a Challenger. I have owned two STIs and this second one is as close to prefect setup for me. AWD plus DCCD controls plus being able to go fast around corners and not just in a straight line. For fun why don't you all go watch the Prodrive STI run the Isle of Man within 1 minute of a sport bike and yes I did say sport bike. Would like to see any v8 muscle car be able to do that period.

500hp Subaru’s are EXTREMELY rare and have maybe a couple races in them before needing a rebuild. Meanwhile they’re “beating” that 15 year old Lamborghini that I’ve beat in my stock Mustang and neither of the other cars will NEED a rebuild before 100k

people who say “well yeah, but my modded *insert shitty car here* will beat *insert good car that person can’t afford here* if I just dump *insert absurd sum of money that person doesn’t have* into it!” are the cancer of the car world

TL;DR no one gives a flying fuck about your stock Subaru. It’s slow and you’re never going to be competing against Lamborghinis (or Mustangs, for that matter) in ANY aspect

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