Ford has some sort of penalty system if a buyer orders a Bronco, but does not take delivery. Will it be enough to stop the hefty ADM by unscrupulous dealers? I have no idea because I have not seen the penalty system.
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2021 Bronco NOT Eligible For X-Plan (Official Document Confirmation) [Update: Confirmed by Ford]
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First, for those that believe that Ford should be prohibiting ADM, they can't -- the dealer lobbies have been very effective in ensuring dealer franchise laws block that. At most they can "cajole" the dealers.
My apologies for the length of what follows; feel free to skip it all.
The primary reason I was looking forward to x-plan was not the discount -- I've already moved to Stephens, and at $1000 below invoice, an additional $25 ($300 benefit-$275 x-plan fee) was trivial. The driver for me was the x-plan's cap on dealer processing fees.
Background for what follows at the end:
I've purchased 7-8 Fords from the local Ford store. In each case I bargained on cars they needed to move, usually at the end of the quarter when sales quotas were weighing heavily on the mind of the new car sales desk manager of the day. In every one of these cases, after stating:
(i) that I believed processing costs were overhead (you'd never get charged a processing fee for a vehicle such as a bicycle),
(ii) that as I understood it, these fees were originated by some clever dealer in New England in 1967 that decided to try increase profit by adding a $25 ($50?) processing fee to see whether customers would balk (which they didn't), and they've simply grown exponentially as dealers have found that most sheep will accept them (especially with the "we have to include it in every deal for legal reasons") -- to which one honest manager readily agreed, stating that their fee was "pure profit";
(iii) that I understand that the primary dealer profit centers are F&I, service and at some stores used cars, not new cars (i.e., they could afford to make a large profit on someone else -- maybe even me later in service/accessory purchases, as I've been dealer-loyal for 2 1/2 decades)
(iv) then they can lower the price of the vehicle by the processing fee if they want to complete the deal,
they happily accepted, knowing that at a *minimum* they'd more that make up the difference between what I was willing to pay and what other less-informed people would pay, likely just in the quota bonus.
Side note: I wasn't bargaining based on starting at "invoice" pricing (I started lower). "Invoice pricing" is a term that has totally lost any real meaning over the past few decades, as the published "invoice" prices have gone up faster than MSRPs -- in other words, Ford's "invoice" pricing no longer comes close to a dealer's true cost for the vehicle. This is the reason that for non-high-demand vehicles, many dealers are thrilled when you come in and say you want to pay "invoice": that is a guaranteed "no-loss" price, from which their only task is to get you to move up.
Side Note 2: For the record, I completely understand and accept that the dealer's "cost" also must include a reasonable mark-up to cover overhead (both fixed and variable costs) and provide a reasonable profit that keeps them in business.
It is in this context that I say that avoiding my local Ford dealer's ridiculous $799 processing fee was the #1 reason I was lured by x-plan pricing on a hot new vehicle. I absolutely do not need a Bronco (I already have an F-150, Mustang and C7 Corvette Z06 in the driveway, along with several BMW motorcycles). So given the choice between paying what I view as just another form of ADM now or waiting until I could get a good below-MSRP price, there was no question that I would have waited. Stephan's offer just means I'll get my loaded 4-dr Badlands sooner than I otherwise would.
My apologies for the length of what follows; feel free to skip it all.
The primary reason I was looking forward to x-plan was not the discount -- I've already moved to Stephens, and at $1000 below invoice, an additional $25 ($300 benefit-$275 x-plan fee) was trivial. The driver for me was the x-plan's cap on dealer processing fees.
Background for what follows at the end:
I've purchased 7-8 Fords from the local Ford store. In each case I bargained on cars they needed to move, usually at the end of the quarter when sales quotas were weighing heavily on the mind of the new car sales desk manager of the day. In every one of these cases, after stating:
(i) that I believed processing costs were overhead (you'd never get charged a processing fee for a vehicle such as a bicycle),
(ii) that as I understood it, these fees were originated by some clever dealer in New England in 1967 that decided to try increase profit by adding a $25 ($50?) processing fee to see whether customers would balk (which they didn't), and they've simply grown exponentially as dealers have found that most sheep will accept them (especially with the "we have to include it in every deal for legal reasons") -- to which one honest manager readily agreed, stating that their fee was "pure profit";
(iii) that I understand that the primary dealer profit centers are F&I, service and at some stores used cars, not new cars (i.e., they could afford to make a large profit on someone else -- maybe even me later in service/accessory purchases, as I've been dealer-loyal for 2 1/2 decades)
(iv) then they can lower the price of the vehicle by the processing fee if they want to complete the deal,
they happily accepted, knowing that at a *minimum* they'd more that make up the difference between what I was willing to pay and what other less-informed people would pay, likely just in the quota bonus.
Side note: I wasn't bargaining based on starting at "invoice" pricing (I started lower). "Invoice pricing" is a term that has totally lost any real meaning over the past few decades, as the published "invoice" prices have gone up faster than MSRPs -- in other words, Ford's "invoice" pricing no longer comes close to a dealer's true cost for the vehicle. This is the reason that for non-high-demand vehicles, many dealers are thrilled when you come in and say you want to pay "invoice": that is a guaranteed "no-loss" price, from which their only task is to get you to move up.
Side Note 2: For the record, I completely understand and accept that the dealer's "cost" also must include a reasonable mark-up to cover overhead (both fixed and variable costs) and provide a reasonable profit that keeps them in business.
It is in this context that I say that avoiding my local Ford dealer's ridiculous $799 processing fee was the #1 reason I was lured by x-plan pricing on a hot new vehicle. I absolutely do not need a Bronco (I already have an F-150, Mustang and C7 Corvette Z06 in the driveway, along with several BMW motorcycles). So given the choice between paying what I view as just another form of ADM now or waiting until I could get a good below-MSRP price, there was no question that I would have waited. Stephan's offer just means I'll get my loaded 4-dr Badlands sooner than I otherwise would.
This all can get so much worse. Every dealer is thinking up new ADM strategy‘s right now and how to keep their reservation holders on the hook as long as possible. Everyone is thinking that their recourse is to just switch dealerships. The concern is what if Ford cant make that happen? Switching isn’t just a couple of clicks on a website. It involves calling a call center that has currently been handling a few dozen requests probably daily max. What happens when thousands of people want to switch dealerships? Number is busy, time is running out, rumors flying. Think Ford is going hire more call center agents? Can’t just fill up a call center in COVID is a good excuse. Once dealers realize the switching process is broken all bets are off and it gets ugly fast.
They can't do that if you don't order with them. We should demand a firm commitment from the dealer before allowing them to convert our reservation to an order. We are not powerless. Without us, MY21 won't hit their lots if reservations are converted at other dealers.
do we really know that this is still in force?
the dealers have gotten everything else changed back to their favor.
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Long thread, hard to keep up! Pages are being added faster than I can read them!
Lots of overreaction here. Okay, the X-Plan isn’t available. Things change. Roll with it. Make a trip to Iowa or West Virginia or Texas. Pay more from a local dealer. Negotiate with your local dealer, like in the old days. Or just wait until 2022--you’ve waited this long already!
Speaking of negotiating, I partially agree with the posts that said X-Plan doesn’t lower your price *that* much. In fact, on many vehicles it’s not hard to get below X-Plan. However, that misses the point. On high-demand vehicles it isn’t always so easy with a local dealer (yes, I know you can travel to get the low price). It’s just nice to know that you’re getting a competitive price on a “hot” vehicle, and not going to be stuck with various mark-ups and fees--without buying a plane ticket.
BroncoT said it well: “The best part of the X Plan is the ability to just order and know you’re getting a reasonably fair price with minimal effort. I was fine with a local dealer walking away with $500-1000 more from me, just to save the hassle. Now I have to care and haggle and all the crap I hate about buying a new vehicle.”
CinciGP as well: “Not sure everyone understands what x plan gives you. It limits doc fees and fully defines the vehicle price. No games, no adm, no paint protection and no waste of a day negotiating. It not just a few hundred dollar savings. … Nothing I hate worse then having to play the dealership games. We do this a few times in our lifetime, but they do it everyday. X plan elimates that.”
Another good take, from Potatomafia: “For me, the x plan was not so much the savings over MSRP, it was protection against unfair and unscrupulous hidden fees and greedy ‘documentation’ and ‘dealer’ fees. The trip into the finance manager's office is undoubtedly the worst part of the car buying process. I hate playing games. It's a huge waste of time. I have yet to buy from a dealer that does not do this to some degree. … Will not being able to use the x plan prevent me from ordering a Bronco? No, but a dealer that decides to throw on an ADM or play stupid games will.” Amen.
I agree with the post saying that Ford doesn’t *owe* us anything. Sure, it might not be the right long-term plan on their part, to piss off their most passionate customers, but they’ve made their choice. They think that the additional cash is worth the loss of goodwill, especially since most people really aren’t that loyal when it comes to buying cars and trucks (I’m one of those who is not--I’ve owned multiple brands). I think this quote by D Fresh said it perfectly: “Ford has gambled that the market will support no X plan pricing. Time will tell if they're right.”
There is another puzzle piece here. Ford wants to keep their Dealers happy, they *need* to keep them happy. Ford’s direct customers are its dealers, even if you are the ultimate customer. I think people are missing something fundamental here. Ford doesn’t own their dealers but they are required by law to sell through them. They have a close relationship, obviously, but they are NOT the same. Their business interests are NOT the same. Gotdesl got it right: “Sad reality is that we aren't Ford customers, the dealerships are. We can ONLY be customers of the dealership unless the sales model changes. … Pick who's customer you are carefully, and may the rest never sell a vehicle again.”
I saw some critical comments about Ford trying to copy Tesla, and failing. Why? Do you not realize that the business models are completely different? This is why Tesla has been fighting so hard, legally, to sell directly to customers! Ford literally cannot copy Tesla, even if they did things perfectly. They cannot completely control the process 100% because they are not selling you the Bronco directly.
The real underlying issue here is Ford’s mismanagement of the X-Plan program, and it’s coming back to bite them now. If literally anyone can get X-Plan pricing for the cost of $25, then it means nothing. As opposed to employees having a limited number of X-Plan PINs they could give or stockholders getting preferred pricing. Even the “Ford partners” aspect has been diluted, it’s way beyond Ford suppliers at this point.
Put yourself in the dealer’s shoes. You have a supposedly independent business, you think you can set and negotiate prices, within reason. You have to eat s#!& on a lot of deals because, frankly, a lot of the product you need to move isn’t that great. If you don’t move that product, you won’t get as much allocation for the hot vehicles. Along comes a vehicle where you can finally make some money (not ADM necessarily, although some surely will do that, but a vehicle that they don't have to heavily discount), and Ford undercuts them by letting anyone in the country get X-Plan. Of course the dealers won’t like that, it ties their hands.
The dealers could take the low-price, high-volume approach--and some have. But even those doing that, they want to do that through reservations (reservations come before dealer stock). More reservations probably means they get more dealer stock after reservations have been delivered. You think they’ll be offering those low prices on dealer stock Broncos? Dream on. No disrespect at all, they’re playing the long game and playing it well.
For the record, I bought 100 shares of F. I figured I don’t want to be part of the Mustang club (no offense, just another thing to clutter my life) and I’m not even sure when Ford will build my Bronco (then I might have to renew). Just made more sense to take a flyer on some stock that might even make me some money by the time I sell it.
As for me, my plan is …. do nothing, not yet anyway. Sounds like the earliest I’ll get a Bronco will be in the second half of 2021, even with a July 14 reservation. I will swing down and have a chat with my dealer, after B&P is released. If X-Plan, or something close, is not honored then I’ll shop around. I might not know this until November or December, whenever ordering takes place, so I'll hold onto my reservation until then at least. I can still move my reservation to another dealer, which I'll do *after* talking to those other (hopefully local) dealers. If that doesn’t work, I’ll wait until the prices come down and/or X-Plan is honored. If none of that works, I’ll buy something else. It’s just a vehicle.
Oh, one more thing: I intend to make it less appealing for my local dealer to add last minute mark-ups to get me to cancel in order to get a hot car on the lot to sell. How? Simple, I'll just order the manual transmission, nobody wanders onto a dealer lot to buy a manual nowadays so the dealer won't even want it!
Better advice, from timhood: “I will be requiring everything in writing with whatever dealer I choose before I convert my reservation to an order. No trust, no surprises.” Amen to that.
Lots of overreaction here. Okay, the X-Plan isn’t available. Things change. Roll with it. Make a trip to Iowa or West Virginia or Texas. Pay more from a local dealer. Negotiate with your local dealer, like in the old days. Or just wait until 2022--you’ve waited this long already!
Speaking of negotiating, I partially agree with the posts that said X-Plan doesn’t lower your price *that* much. In fact, on many vehicles it’s not hard to get below X-Plan. However, that misses the point. On high-demand vehicles it isn’t always so easy with a local dealer (yes, I know you can travel to get the low price). It’s just nice to know that you’re getting a competitive price on a “hot” vehicle, and not going to be stuck with various mark-ups and fees--without buying a plane ticket.
BroncoT said it well: “The best part of the X Plan is the ability to just order and know you’re getting a reasonably fair price with minimal effort. I was fine with a local dealer walking away with $500-1000 more from me, just to save the hassle. Now I have to care and haggle and all the crap I hate about buying a new vehicle.”
CinciGP as well: “Not sure everyone understands what x plan gives you. It limits doc fees and fully defines the vehicle price. No games, no adm, no paint protection and no waste of a day negotiating. It not just a few hundred dollar savings. … Nothing I hate worse then having to play the dealership games. We do this a few times in our lifetime, but they do it everyday. X plan elimates that.”
Another good take, from Potatomafia: “For me, the x plan was not so much the savings over MSRP, it was protection against unfair and unscrupulous hidden fees and greedy ‘documentation’ and ‘dealer’ fees. The trip into the finance manager's office is undoubtedly the worst part of the car buying process. I hate playing games. It's a huge waste of time. I have yet to buy from a dealer that does not do this to some degree. … Will not being able to use the x plan prevent me from ordering a Bronco? No, but a dealer that decides to throw on an ADM or play stupid games will.” Amen.
I agree with the post saying that Ford doesn’t *owe* us anything. Sure, it might not be the right long-term plan on their part, to piss off their most passionate customers, but they’ve made their choice. They think that the additional cash is worth the loss of goodwill, especially since most people really aren’t that loyal when it comes to buying cars and trucks (I’m one of those who is not--I’ve owned multiple brands). I think this quote by D Fresh said it perfectly: “Ford has gambled that the market will support no X plan pricing. Time will tell if they're right.”
There is another puzzle piece here. Ford wants to keep their Dealers happy, they *need* to keep them happy. Ford’s direct customers are its dealers, even if you are the ultimate customer. I think people are missing something fundamental here. Ford doesn’t own their dealers but they are required by law to sell through them. They have a close relationship, obviously, but they are NOT the same. Their business interests are NOT the same. Gotdesl got it right: “Sad reality is that we aren't Ford customers, the dealerships are. We can ONLY be customers of the dealership unless the sales model changes. … Pick who's customer you are carefully, and may the rest never sell a vehicle again.”
I saw some critical comments about Ford trying to copy Tesla, and failing. Why? Do you not realize that the business models are completely different? This is why Tesla has been fighting so hard, legally, to sell directly to customers! Ford literally cannot copy Tesla, even if they did things perfectly. They cannot completely control the process 100% because they are not selling you the Bronco directly.
The real underlying issue here is Ford’s mismanagement of the X-Plan program, and it’s coming back to bite them now. If literally anyone can get X-Plan pricing for the cost of $25, then it means nothing. As opposed to employees having a limited number of X-Plan PINs they could give or stockholders getting preferred pricing. Even the “Ford partners” aspect has been diluted, it’s way beyond Ford suppliers at this point.
Put yourself in the dealer’s shoes. You have a supposedly independent business, you think you can set and negotiate prices, within reason. You have to eat s#!& on a lot of deals because, frankly, a lot of the product you need to move isn’t that great. If you don’t move that product, you won’t get as much allocation for the hot vehicles. Along comes a vehicle where you can finally make some money (not ADM necessarily, although some surely will do that, but a vehicle that they don't have to heavily discount), and Ford undercuts them by letting anyone in the country get X-Plan. Of course the dealers won’t like that, it ties their hands.
The dealers could take the low-price, high-volume approach--and some have. But even those doing that, they want to do that through reservations (reservations come before dealer stock). More reservations probably means they get more dealer stock after reservations have been delivered. You think they’ll be offering those low prices on dealer stock Broncos? Dream on. No disrespect at all, they’re playing the long game and playing it well.
For the record, I bought 100 shares of F. I figured I don’t want to be part of the Mustang club (no offense, just another thing to clutter my life) and I’m not even sure when Ford will build my Bronco (then I might have to renew). Just made more sense to take a flyer on some stock that might even make me some money by the time I sell it.
As for me, my plan is …. do nothing, not yet anyway. Sounds like the earliest I’ll get a Bronco will be in the second half of 2021, even with a July 14 reservation. I will swing down and have a chat with my dealer, after B&P is released. If X-Plan, or something close, is not honored then I’ll shop around. I might not know this until November or December, whenever ordering takes place, so I'll hold onto my reservation until then at least. I can still move my reservation to another dealer, which I'll do *after* talking to those other (hopefully local) dealers. If that doesn’t work, I’ll wait until the prices come down and/or X-Plan is honored. If none of that works, I’ll buy something else. It’s just a vehicle.
Oh, one more thing: I intend to make it less appealing for my local dealer to add last minute mark-ups to get me to cancel in order to get a hot car on the lot to sell. How? Simple, I'll just order the manual transmission, nobody wanders onto a dealer lot to buy a manual nowadays so the dealer won't even want it!
Better advice, from timhood: “I will be requiring everything in writing with whatever dealer I choose before I convert my reservation to an order. No trust, no surprises.” Amen to that.
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Reservation cancelled!!! I'm tired of the games and this isn't fun anymore. Original plan reinstated, I'll sit back, watch this forum and decide if the Bronco is worth purchasing. The hype will die down and I can test drive before ordering.
Good luck guys!!!!
I look forward to reading everyone's feedback once you start rolling.
Good luck guys!!!!
I look forward to reading everyone's feedback once you start rolling.
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A HUGE AMOUNT ? ?
I think the fact that you can now move your reservation right up to the last day to convert to an order will slow that down.
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probably the best breakdown as of yet. I applaud you sir. Hopefully a lot of people can take something worth while from that because you clearly get it. There is a bigger picture here than everyone's individual Bronco order.
I tend to not believe this. I think it's dealers trying to persuade customers not to do this so they don't lose the reservation.
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I'm more annoyed with the douches on here making fun of the people who are upset about losing the X-plan. Just because someone was hoping to get a better deal doesn't make them losers or whiners. It makes them fiscally responsible.
If you want it, I've got something for you to gloat on.
If you want it, I've got something for you to gloat on.
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Guess it would be wise to know someone who can get you an A plan ? ???Update: Also confirmed by Mike Levine:
DOCUMENT
Per this document (effective October 5, 2020 as noted on the document) posted to the dealer system today, the 2021 Bronco is ineligible for X-Plan and X-Plan Partner discount pricing. It is eligible for AZD Plan discounts, however.
We pulled an earlier thread on this in order to confirm this document with more certainty, which we now have.
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Now that I've given up on getting a Bronco anytime soon (2021) this is somewhat amusing to read. I'm amazed at how many here are more than happy to pay whatever the dealer is going to charge them. Apparently throwing out an extra 1K, 2K or even 3K$ that will be gone the instant they drive off the lot is no big deal. The only ones that might get any benefit from paying MSRP+ are the FE buyers but only if they park the vehicle and hang onto it for a few years. But why spend 60K$+ on something you won't ever drive? So I'll wait and see what happens. Any of you big spenders who have money to spare feel free to send some my way. I accept Paypal, Venmo and Zelle. I promise you I will appreciate your generous contribution far more than any dealership toad.
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