2025 Suspension Recommendations (by Snacktime)

[raqball]

I have 6100's on my non Sas Badlands 2dr with 35x11.5R17's. I did 2 1/2" lift in front and a 1" in rear. This accounted for the factory rake and the additional rake caused by the front winch, winch mount and dual ARB under the hood.

Verry happy with the 6100's!

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[Brian_B]

Really? I added tires that are 19lbs heavier and 80lbs heavier plates/bumpers/sliders, plus 30lbs of stuff I take off roading. Some of that is unsprung, some of that is sprung (supported by the springs). Some of that affects the dampening of the shocks, but also some of it is offset by shock settings (which I don't understand as well).

Are the 6100's a benefit here or not? It doesn't seem that complicated to me, but I think it's really just a springs vs suspension question.

---

Add'l unsprung weight: 4 x 19lbs = 76lbs
Add'l sprung weight: 80lbs + 19lbs + 30lbs = 129lbs

I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around it. The difference between sprung and unspung - I get that tires are on the ground, so the springs aren't carrying that weight normally. But how that impacts suspension -- it affect dampening rates I would think, but only 19 lbs of it at a time - each shock/strut isn't gonna see the full 76 lbs of unsprung weight right? Or maybe it only matters at full drop extension, when the wheel isn't in contact with the ground anymore and the suspension is carrying that weight now? Not sure.

129 lbs of additional sprung weight seems... pretty insignificant, but maybe it is?.

I mean, you have someone in the passenger seat and it's probably gonna add more weight than that (maybe 2x-3x since most of us are in 'Murica). And most of the weight you are talking about (skid plates, etc) is pretty evenly distributed, it's not like, say, a winch that is way out at the end and disproportionately affects the distribution between both axles.

I guess you do talk about bumpers... if it's just one or the other that would affect that particular axle, but if you did both they offset, so...

Just trying to learn is all.

 

[Mike leggiero]

37s 2 in spacer lift 1 in over sas no rub tire ar terramax rt the run skinny tread is 9 wide weight 60 pounds d rate . lcg build . this is a base 7 speed no boxes marked. the blue one 2.5 lift withdiff drop same tires rims black rino 8.5 wide -12. . the green one is.in the water crossing video

 

[userdude]

I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around it. The difference between sprung and unspung - I get that tires are on the ground, so the springs aren't carrying that weight normally. But how that impacts suspension -- it affect dampening rates I would think, but only 19 lbs of it at a time - each shock/strut isn't gonna see the full 76 lbs of unsprung weight right? Or maybe it only matters at full drop extension, when the wheel isn't in contact with the ground anymore and the suspension is carrying that weight now? Not sure.

129 lbs of additional sprung weight seems... pretty insignificant, but maybe it is?.

I mean, you have someone in the passenger seat and it's probably gonna add more weight than that (maybe 2x-3x since most of us are in 'Murica). And most of the weight you are talking about (skid plates, etc) is pretty evenly distributed, it's not like, say, a winch that is way out at the end and disproportionately affects the distribution between both axles.

I guess you do talk about bumpers... if it's just one or the other that would affect that particular axle, but if you did both they offset, so...

Just trying to learn is all.

That's kinda what I'm trying to get somebody to help me understand. 19lbs per tire, yeah, the stock shock is probably close to it's max but maybe not worth upgrading. Is 130lbs worth it for heavier duty springs, on a 2dr no less? The spread of the weight out (the bumpers are way lighter) can be felt in the springs; it feels like it floats more than before.

I don't know. Is getting adjustable shocks and/or springs the right approach, e.g. fixing sag with a higher setting? I dunno.

All I do know is I smack on ledges a lot more than I did pre-80lbs of weight, and I do get different performance with the heavier tires. Where I should be thinking about that is the question I'm asking.

 

[Bronc69]

I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around it. The difference between sprung and unspung - I get that tires are on the ground, so the springs aren't carrying that weight normally. But how that impacts suspension -- it affect dampening rates I would think, but only 19 lbs of it at a time - each shock/strut isn't gonna see the full 76 lbs of unsprung weight right? Or maybe it only matters at full drop extension, when the wheel isn't in contact with the ground anymore and the suspension is carrying that weight now? Not sure.

129 lbs of additional sprung weight seems... pretty insignificant, but maybe it is?.

I mean, you have someone in the passenger seat and it's probably gonna add more weight than that (maybe 2x-3x since most of us are in 'Murica). And most of the weight you are talking about (skid plates, etc) is pretty evenly distributed, it's not like, say, a winch that is way out at the end and disproportionately affects the distribution between both axles.

I guess you do talk about bumpers... if it's just one or the other that would affect that particular axle, but if you did both they offset, so...

Just trying to learn is all.

Good read. Pretty clear how unsprung weigh can affect the driving characteristics of a vehicle.

https://www.cjponyparts.com/resourc...8UKD4Wra-PvNajhZmCeHBp8GSn-kPVjVquioueTnXkW_D

 

[CoolContractor]

This is the current recommendation on how to choose your lift. I no longer recommend spacer lifts, this is due to possible cv axle damage and added wear to front differential seals. I am also not recommending lift springs since they don't always net the same lift and that you need more shock to control them. I have become much less concerned with suspension travel as we find the limits of stock parts. This is based on running stock parts like factory cv-axles which is the biggest limiting factor to lifts.

0-2" Lift on 35s from Malls to Mild Trails -Your not going to disrupt the driving characteristics or effect long term reliability

• Perch collars, stiffens the ride and okay if low mileage.
• 5100s Bilsteins are the cheapest recommendable shock replacement, they have better dampening with increased road feedback. Best option for NON-SAS Broncos.
• 6100s Bilsteins are an upgrade over 5100, they are better suited to bigger tires only work on SAS broncos. Best option for SAS Broncos.
• Eibach Stage 2.0 Pro Truck with normal springs, "subjective" but most likely the best ride, they are designed for less road feedback. Best option for a 35" and smaller tire and if you are fairly stock. Have easy adjustment to get that perfect lift.

0-2" Lift on 35s Mild Trails to you have added some weight-Your are going to disrupt the driving characteristics!

• Perch collars, stiffens the ride and okay if low mileage.
• 5100s Bilsteins provide known lift and can counter the weight of extra items. Best option for NON-SAS Broncos.
• 6100s Bilsteins provide known lift and can counter the weight of extra items. Best option for SAS Broncos.

2-4" of lift beacuse you need the ground clearance or lots of weight, going to have adverse driving characteristics and lots of wear and tear. You will want a differential drop if over 3" of lift. Upper control arms should be added after 3" of lift.

• Body lift 1.5" or 2" or 3" stacked with a lower lift.
• 2.5" Shocks
  • 6100s Bilsteins but they are really running out of lift.
  • 6112 Bilsteins for the NON-SAS broncos.
  • Icon EXP Shocks which go up to 3"
• Real 2.5" coilovers
  • Kings
  • Fox
  • Icon
  • Insert name here

Going to 37" Tires, you are now adding wear and tear to the vehicle and effecting long term reliability

• Clearance to prevent hitting the top of the fender
  • Shock specifically designed for 37s.
  • Body lift, you need to add at least 1/2" to 3/4". Less long term wear.
  • 1" leveling kit to space down the front coilover. More long term wear and not recommend for M190 differential Broncos. You will want a front differential drop.
  • Shock shaft spacer provided by the shock manufacturer.
• Some form of lift
  • Perch collars you have to much tire for the stock shocks.
  • Eibach Stage 2.0 Bilsteins are stiffer and handle the heavy tire better.
  • 5100s Bilsteins starting to be the limit of what a 2" shock can dampen.
  • 6100s Bilsteins best solution as they are big enough to control the tire.
  • 2.5" Shocks
  • 2.5" Coilovers

5+" Bracket lifts are not currently recommend for any reason. This is opening a can of worms that leads to stress.

What are your thoughts on Dobinsons MMR coilovers set up for 2 1/2" lift in front, leveled in the rear? 2024, 4 door Badlands with tow package. No high-speed off-road driving, just moderate trails with articulation and about 500 to 600 lbs. of gear in the back and heavy rock sliders. Stock bumpers and no winch and 35" tires.

 

[Mike T]

Going to be following as I am looking to upgrade in the future. I have a non SAS Badlands that I am running the SAS wheels and 35's on. I do some moderate offloading and camping. The camping gear and the RSE step sliders have squatted it a 1/2 or so and I am planing on adding a trans skid, roof rack, front bumper and winch WNC set up from LOBO. I am thinking of just checking into springs front and rear to be added to the stock Bilstein's with the thought of 2 new shocks in the rear after recall and can always find new takes offs from upgrades or purchase new. Am I better to stick with the nonSAS Badlands Bilstein"s as they have more travel and add a perch with the springs or should I look at the SAS ones? I have also been seeing the Fox H.O.S.S shocks starting to show up and might go that route with springs also. I am not planning on anything bigger than 35's at this time. Thoughts on perch and factory or aftermarket springs. Thanks for all the info showing up from the original post.

 

[mpeugeot]

That's kinda what I'm trying to get somebody to help me understand. 19lbs per tire, yeah, the stock shock is probably close to it's max but maybe not worth upgrading. Is 130lbs worth it for heavier duty springs, on a 2dr no less? The spread of the weight out (the bumpers are way lighter) can be felt in the springs; it feels like it floats more than before.

I don't know. Is getting adjustable shocks and/or springs the right approach, e.g. fixing sag with a higher setting? I dunno.

All I do know is I smack on ledges a lot more than I did pre-80lbs of weight, and I do get different performance with the heavier tires. Where I should be thinking about that is the question I'm asking.

The 80# should not have made that much difference. I typically have a bunch of weight in tools in the back of my Bronco and the back never seemed to move all that much more when I was running the Bilstein's. It certainly was not bottoming out the shock. Do you have a bunch of gear in the back in addition to the extra 80#?

Unsprung weight seems to be more of a factor at speed when dealing with high speed compression and rebound. So I don't think that it's the unsprung weight.

The answer is not always as simple as spring vs shock, because often both will contribute.

 

[Snacktime]

Lets talk springs a bit, cough heavy weight springs. I ran 5-6 sets of lift springs on my landcruiser and its very hard to get something that really works as well as factory. Most important thing is to figure out how much lift you lost due to weight(spring age effects this too). You then have to figure out what the stock spring rates are. For us the rear is near 300lbs per in of drop. So if you lost lets say 2" of rear lift you have 600lbs of equivalent weight on the rear axle over stock. This is very different from how much weight you may actual have as weight like a tire carrier has more leverage. Springs work by compressing to offset the weight and if linear you lose the same weight per in. On progressive springs its extremely not linear.

Insert Eibach Stage 2.0 Pro Truck shocks and springs which seem to be excellent on stockish setups. The Springs are near correct you get very nice ride. As you load the vehicle up the springs squish down and progressively get stiffer and overwhelm the shocks dampening capability. The heavy weight springs just compound the issue especially since most people that want them are also running a 37. Do they work? Yes and ride better than factory! Are they going be the best option or are the cheaper 2.5" 6100 that dampen more starting to become more appealing. You can only make a 2" shock so stiff before you start blowing out seals.

Linear springs for more weight ride better. As the suspension compresses the shock is still dampening the same amount of spring. Feels more predictable as the suspension is linearly loading and unloading during braking and turning.

Insert new technology like live shocks, magnetic fluids and other expensive technology the shock can adjust on the fly. This allows the shock to absolutely work better with a progressive spring as long as they are in sync. This is why the Raptor Bronco is the pinnacle of our current setups.

Any concerns with just running a 1 inch leveling kit on the front to offset droop from the added weight of a winch? I am running the 1 inch Zone Offroad leveling kit on the front.

On stock SAS shocks a 1" leveling kit only adds .625" of length to the shock which is under the threshold for front CV binding. Nothing wrong with it, I really believe leveling kits are under used as you can stack them in the rear to!

Yeah, I don't know. I've heard 2" (or more specific 2.2") is safe for a couple years now. Snacktime's guidance is 3" or more. So I don't know.

Noticing an increase in people complaining about front differential seal leaks. I have a strong opinion this is directly related to cv axle angle and amount of metal coming out during front differential services. I may lower it 2" in a few years as more people have issues. Currently over 3" and you have issues just outside warranty with leaks and seals.

And one more try for Eibach @Snacktime, since @userdude reminded me in his comment - I still need to measure but talking to Eibach and Panda last month, they recommended the preinstalled HD springs for my heavy situation and that is what is on my radar. Fairly new and you may not have tested them - (accomodates 150lbs additional weight over front axle and 500lbs additional weight over rear axle).

Not really worried about the front, the rear always feels like its runs out of suspension first. Not sure a stiffure spring will soak up more than a bigger shock tube. This also relates to sway control "bigger" stiffer shocks work phenomenal. This relates back to Eibach Pro Truck 2.0 I have on my wife's truck, rides amazing till I load it up 10ft high with furniture. You can physical tell they are past what they can control.

Really? I added tires that are 19lbs heavier and 80lbs heavier plates/bumpers/sliders, plus 30lbs of stuff I take off roading. Some of that is unsprung, some of that is sprung (supported by the springs). Some of that affects the dampening of the shocks, but also some of it is offset by shock settings (which I don't understand as well).

Are the 6100's a benefit here or not? It doesn't seem that complicated to me, but I think it's really just a springs vs suspension question.

1" of lift is easier to compensate with spacers or shock collar adjustment(5100,6100,eibach), 1-2" is the grey area and 2-3" of sag you need some springs(coilovers).

Really the take away is understand how much suspension sag is fixable before you cross into changing springs. If you change springs then shocks need to be changed too. Poof you are at coilovers, I don't have enough time with different brands to say what is the best. I can say running around with other Broncos you can tell who has coilovers but not what brand is better. 5100s kept me side by side with SAS Broncos, 4WP coilovers kept me up around the dirt track at Prairie City.

 

[Mike T]

Lets talk springs a bit, cough heavy weight springs. I ran 5-6 sets of lift springs on my landcruiser and its very hard to get something that really works as well as factory. Most important thing is to figure out how much lift you lost due to weight(spring age effects this too). You then have to figure out what the stock spring rates are. For us the rear is near 300lbs per in of drop. So if you lost lets say 2" of rear lift you have 600lbs of equivalent weight on the rear axle over stock. This is very different from how much weight you may actual have as weight like a tire carrier has more leverage. Springs work by compressing to offset the weight and if linear you lose the same weight per in. On progressive springs its extremely not linear.

Insert Eibach Stage 2.0 Pro Truck shocks and springs which seem to be excellent on stockish setups. The Springs are near correct you get very nice ride. As you load the vehicle up the springs squish down and progressively get stiffer and overwhelm the shocks dampening capability. The heavy weight springs just compound the issue especially since most people that want them are also running a 37. Do they work? Yes and ride better than factory! Are they going be the best option or are the cheaper 2.5" 6100 that dampen more starting to become more appealing. You can only make a 2" shock so stiff before you start blowing out seals.

Linear springs for more weight ride better. As the suspension compresses the shock is still dampening the same amount of spring. Feels more predictable as the suspension is linearly loading and unloading during braking and turning.

Insert new technology like live shocks, magnetic fluids and other expensive technology the shock can adjust on the fly. This allows the shock to absolutely work better with a progressive spring as long as they are in sync. This is why the Raptor Bronco is the pinnacle of our current setups.





On stock SAS shocks a 1" leveling kit only adds .625" of length to the shock which is under the threshold for front CV binding. Nothing wrong with it, I really believe leveling kits are under used as you can stack them in the rear to!



Noticing an increase in people complaining about front differential seal leaks. I have a strong opinion this is directly related to cv axle angle and amount of metal coming out during front differential services. I may lower it 2" in a few years as more people have issues. Currently over 3" and you have issues just outside warranty with leaks and seals.



Not really worried about the front, the rear always feels like its runs out of suspension first. Not sure a stiffure spring will soak up more than a bigger shock tube. This also relates to sway control "bigger" stiffer shocks work phenomenal. This relates back to Eibach Pro Truck 2.0 I have on my wife's truck, rides amazing till I load it up 10ft high with furniture. You can physical tell they are past what they can control.



1" of lift is easier to compensate with spacers or shock collar adjustment(5100,6100,eibach), 1-2" is the grey area and 2-3" of sag you need some springs(coilovers).

Really the take away is understand how much suspension sag is fixable before you cross into changing springs. If you change springs then shocks need to be changed too. Poof you are at coilovers, I don't have enough time with different brands to say what is the best. I can say running around with other Broncos you can tell who has coilovers but not what brand is better. 5100s kept me side by side with SAS Broncos, 4WP coilovers kept me up around the dirt track at Prairie City.

So if I am reading this correctly, if I am looking to add lost height of under an 1 to 2 inch run what the shocks came with and look at a spacer. Is the spacer the same as a perch collar? The leveling kits actually will change the angle of the drive line where the collar basically moves the spring up and stiffens the ride?
Thanks for the input you have given, I have been really confused on the differences until reading through this post.

 

[userdude]

The 80# should not have made that much difference. I typically have a bunch of weight in tools in the back of my Bronco and the back never seemed to move all that much more when I was running the Bilstein's. It certainly was not bottoming out the shock. Do you have a bunch of gear in the back in addition to the extra 80#?

Unsprung weight seems to be more of a factor at speed when dealing with high speed compression and rebound. So I don't think that it's the unsprung weight.

The answer is not always as simple as spring vs shock, because often both will contribute.

Yeah, it occurred to me that saying "180lbs" or whatever didn't really account for what was sitting on the springs, which is why I broke it down. I have 80lbs + 30lbs of crap + 19lbs on the spare (which as Snacktime pointed out, it's a lever arm so I guess accounts for more in practice, like a winch hanging off a bumper). Is there even a spring option for ~+150lbs? I doubt it. If I had the balls, I'd try going spareless, that would put me back to stock but all in the back.

I wouldn't think that little weight would have that much an impact either; I suspect I'm still within the performance envelope of the stock springs and shocks. However, without asking I don't really know what to think. I like true 35's and probably don't really want to go to 37's at least for a few more years.

So many options, so many compromises, and money burns, amiright?

 

[87-Z28]

Lots of people get confused between “spacer” lifts and “perch collar” lifts. Perhaps a better way to think of this is either shock length extension (spacer) or spring adjustment (perch).

Consequences of each.

- shock length increase will allow your lower control arm (LCA) to rotate to a larger angle. Shock is longer and now wheel can travel downward farther. This will also then affect max CV angles. The spring forces are NOT altered so ride quality remains similar.

- spring adjustment does NOT increase shock length only adds preload to spring (increased spring force). So max CV angles remain stock since LCA can’t rotate more than stock shock length. The increased spring force can however change ride quality.

everyone contemplating shock changes from oem should crawl under vehicle and convince themselves they understand these differences. This makes everything else easier to understand.

 

[mpeugeot]

Yeah, it occurred to me that saying "180lbs" or whatever didn't really account for what was sitting on the springs, which is why I broke it down. I have 80lbs + 30lbs of crap + 19lbs on the spare (which as Snacktime pointed out, it's a lever arm so I guess accounts for more in practice, like a winch hanging off a bumper). Is there even a spring option for ~+150lbs? I doubt it. If I had the balls, I'd try going spareless, that would put me back to stock but all in the back.

I wouldn't think that little weight would have that much an impact either; I suspect I'm still within the performance envelope of the stock springs and shocks. However, without asking I don't really know what to think. I like true 35's and probably don't really want to go to 37's at least for a few more years.

So many options, so many compromises, and money burns, amiright?

Wish you were closer by, I would let you try out the Eibach's on my Bronco. Our rigs are not that dissimilar.

 

[AMCheese]

Reminder for you not to consider them.

DOH!

2DR + 4WP/ProComp coilovers = NO GOOD

And this is because 2DR is too light for the 4WP/ProComp coilovers which provide too much lift for 2DR and will push CV / DIFF geometry out of spec? and can not be successfully lowered? <- Is this true?

Currently have SAS takeoffs from 2021 FE 2DR on my 2022 2DR 2.7 Black Diamond with 17" Method wheels +35 offset and 315/70-17 GoodYear MTs.

Was planning on upgrading to the 4WP/ProComp setup this month until I saw this thread. Now I may have a set for sale for some 4DR owner. If anyone has any input for me I could surely use it.

 

[cynicalrider]

Eibach starts to lose out when you get to bigger tires and weight. @userdude is telling you exactly why once you hit a lot weight it takes more to take the bounce out. Eibach are amazing when you are near stock weight and running a lighter tire.

Don't mix shocks, every shock is valved different and this makes for poor harmonics.

Moab is super amazing wheeling! I found lower lift to be extremely beneficial on trails especially off camber situations. I would keep the stock Fox shocks and add perch collars. If you want another 1" I would stack a leveling kit on top. You have some of the best riding suspension you can get, don't get sold on better. You are not going to get better until you spend money on custom shocks that are stiffer, nothing off the shelf is going to beat them.

This, the valving and setup on the HOSS 3.0 Fox setup rides really really well. I am also in the boat of trying to figure out how to stiffen the rear up on them now that I have the added weight.

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