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Stampede.Offroad

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If there was more to ICE, why wouldn't manufactures be pursing it?
...
prices should drop once there is more manufacturing capacity and different materials and types of batteries hit the market in the near future.
These ideas are contradictory. Batteries have been around longer than ICE, and I find the prevalence of the assumption that all of a sudden we're going to make drastic improvements in battery cost of production or efficiency to be laughable. We've known the chemistry for the batteries we're using on these cars for a century.

The only thing pushing their use is politics, not math or physics. We might all be driving electric cars in a decade, but it will be entirely for political reasons, not inherent market forces.
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Sherminiator

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These ideas are contradictory. Batteries have been around longer than ICE, and I find the prevalence of the assumption that all of a sudden we're going to make drastic improvements in battery cost of production or efficiency to be laughable. We've known the chemistry for the batteries we're using on these cars for a century.
That is pretty funny-the Lithium-ion batteries (most common battery in BEVs) didn't come out until 1991...we aren't using lead acid batteries like you think...

Iron phosphate batteries where invented in 1996 and are just now coming into the automotive use as an alternative.
 
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Sherminiator

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People can talk about what ever ICE/BEV points they want but until we can recharge BEVs in 10 minutes or less to full charge and tow just like ICE engines, mass change over or bans are not going to happen. It is just fact. We are a "got to have it now" country and that's not changing any time soon.
Here is the thing-you can completely skip going to the gas station and just plug in when you get home and have a full charge in the morning. Plus if the power goes out, you can power your house for a few days, if not longer. There has to be some mindset changes when using BEVs-just because it is different doesn't make it bad.

Towing will be an issue, but trailers with batteries built into them will help bridge that gap that currently exists.
 

Jr87mustang

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Here is the thing-you can completely skip going to the gas station and just plug in when you get home and have a full charge in the morning. Plus if the power goes out, you can power your house for a few days, if not longer. There has to be some mindset changes when using BEVs-just because it is different doesn't make it bad.

Towing will be an issue, but trailers with batteries built into them will help bridge that gap that currently exists.
I know you seem to be really excited about BEVs but there is a lot of reality that gets skipped over. To use one of your sentences, just because its different doesn't make it useful/better. Batteries are getting better, but there has been little to no advances in charging them. Solid state batteries are coming quickly and are half the weight but they don't charge any quicker than what we have. Your going to gain driving miles but still sit for an hour or better to charge to 100%. I don't know about anyone else but my wife and daughter that like to travel are not having any part of that, like at all. I live in Cali and we are probably the farthest along implementing these new systems and I can tell you (I am a civil engineer for the transportation department) the power grids here are a LONG ways from being able to handle mass BEVs, a very long ways away. We had brown outs last summer just from a heat wave. Just for fun google our solar farm and see how it is doing, specifically look for how many birds it's setting on fire per year, literally. We also have a large wind farm about an hour from my house, last report I saw said a species of bat that lives here is being moved to the "threatened" list because the wind farm is chopping them up. Also remember that we "outlawed" strip mining because of sever environmental concerns and then look up the lithium mines, looks like the gold rush days are back - yikes. I think that BEVs will be a part of the future for sure but all of us on this forum will be long dead before it happens. No need to get excited about it yet. Politicians just need a way to move money from on pot to the next or from one person to the next and climate change is that vehicle right now.

My office has been looking at this idea on and off for 15 years now, I REALLY want to do an offramp up where I live to test it out. Its very cool. No more dumping asphalt down for roads. Coefficient of friction has been a real bear though. https://solarroadways.com/product/product/
 

Stampede.Offroad

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That is pretty funny-the Lithium-ion batteries (most common battery in BEVs) didn't come out until 1991...we aren't using lead acid batteries like you think...
Your mind reading powers need some work -- I'm not talking about lead. People have been building lithium batteries for over 50 years.
 

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Sherminiator

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Your mind reading powers need some work -- I'm not talking about lead. People have been building lithium batteries for over 50 years.
Why are you bringing non rechargeable batteries into this?
 

DryYourTears

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Batteries are getting better, but there has been little to no advances in charging them. Solid state batteries are coming quickly and are half the weight but they don't charge any quicker than what we have. Your going to gain driving miles but still sit for an hour or better to charge to 100%.
This is VERY untrue. Charging times have been decreasing with newer generations of electric vehicles, especially with increasingly faster DC fast charge. The tech is continually getting better. For example, this company working on 10-minute charging.

All the talk here about ICE not being at "peak efficiency" is laughable. We had high gas prices before and things didn't improve a whole lot, and there was clearly incentive to do so. Had they gotten ICE any better, it would have held off BEV adoption, frankly.

The maximum reachable efficient of ICE is possibly about 50%, and that's only with specially blended fuels. Generally getting past 40% with current fuel is very difficult. You'll just never get to where you need to be with ICE. I've loved ICE vehicles my whole life, but there really isn't a choice but to move on. If you don't think climate change is a thing, the finite supply of oil (and the ever-increasing prices) definitely is (note: I don't really mean running out of oil - just running to the point where it's prohibitively expensive to collect and use).
 

Jr87mustang

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This is VERY untrue. Charging times have been decreasing with newer generations of electric vehicles, especially with increasingly faster DC fast charge. The tech is continually getting better. For example, this company working on 10-minute charging.
It is very true. Have times come down? Yes, but not in any way that actually matters. Maybe 4 mins one year 5 minutes the next....I guess you could call this improvement but the statement still stands. Until you can fill a car with electricity with the same ease and 5- 10 min time frame like an ICE it won't be adopted. Americans want what they want right now and will not wait, that includes waiting an hour for electric cars to charge. Articles like the one you have posted have been common since the early 2000s and mean little. EVERYONE is "working on" a 10-minute charger, who wouldn't be? Its kind like articles about curing cancer....been talking about that for decades. Sending 100kWh into a battery pack in 5-10 minutes is mind blowing math wise. The heat it generates is crazy. Will it be done, yup, but not for a while. Will we have to eventually move to electric only? Maybe, but the time line in not as dire as is made out to be, ask Ted Danson. I am not knocking BEVs, their time will come, but you can't get ahead of a real world time line because Hollywood says you need to🤷‍♂️
 

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Denial.
 

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Cyber2D

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Not really. There is unlikely to be a magic battery made that will be an actual replacement for distance and/or the ease of filling a gas tank quickly.
There are EVs TODAY that will give you 300 miles of charge in under 20 minutes. I don't think it's unreasonable to think it'll shrink in 8 years time.

Honestly, technology isn't the limiting factor here. It's the infrastructure. Once 350kwh stations start popping up everywhere, game over for ICE.
 

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Batteries have been around longer than ICE, and I find the prevalence of the assumption that all of a sudden we're going to make drastic improvements in battery cost of production or efficiency to be laughable. We've known the chemistry for the batteries we're using on these cars for a century.
Monkey brain take. Battery cars predated ICE and then were promptly kicked to the curb when Rockefeller needed to unload a cool new product called gasoline.

Then exactly $2.50 + a cheeseburger in R&D was spent on BEVs from 1905 to around late 90s. GM had a go at it with golf cart batteries and then gave up as well.

Then this niche company you've probably never heard about called Tesla came to the scene and EVs have rapidly improved in a decade. We've made more advancements in EV technology in a decade than the past 100 years.

Amazing. Turns out when a dozen companies pour billions of dollars into a technology it improves. Every research institute in the country right now probably has funding to research better ways to make batteries.

Sooooo many of y'all are in total denial about this.
 

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There are EVs TODAY that will give you 300 miles of charge in under 20 minutes. I don't think it's unreasonable to think it'll shrink in 8 years time.

Honestly, technology isn't the limiting factor here. It's the infrastructure. Once 350kwh stations start popping up everywhere, game over for ICE.
Technology is absolutely the limiting factor. You can bury your head in the sand but it does. It change how physics works.

And if they made an electric car with a meaningful range I would be interested but so far they simply cannot.

Go back are read my brief posts. I’m not anti-electric car I’m just a realist and don’t attribute magic to making things happen just because I want that thing to happen.
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