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An open letter to Mike Levine et al.

toymaster

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Camper weighs 3395lbs loaded (gear, 40gal of water, diesel, food etc.).
Dude I've read the whole thread, and happen to tow a lot from a 1,000lb off road trailer to grossing 45K with my superdutys. If you want some unsolicited advice, Any tow rating the factory puts on a vehicle has a large safety margin. You freely have repeated your set-up weight 3,400 lbs and that is "too close". I would submit that it is not. Especially, if you have the four door. (It literally makes no sense to have the 2 door and 4 door rated and both engines rated the same) I actually think the numbers are just a place holder and NOT the final numbers and the Ford people fielding the questions are just repeating what the current info states.

Just to be clear the 3,500 is a tow weight rating not a GVWR. Place more load in the Bronco if it makes you feel better. That said, even if the final rating is 3,500 I would have zero problems hooking up to 3,400 in a properly loaded trailer. I'd get the 2.7 and the 4 door, I personally would not want to pull 3,500 in the short wheelbase 2 dr.



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toymaster

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Cookieck

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I'm upset the bronco can't go 0-60 in 2.1 seconds. I shouldn't have to live in an age where I need two cars.

That's how this sounds.
If the complaint was that it couldn’t tow 12000lbs I’d completely agree. That’s definitely towing specific truck territory, as 2.1sec 0-60 is definitely supercar territory.
But if you want to actual make that comparison match it’d be more like this -
Ranger and bronco sized suvs have a 0-60 of around 7-8 sec, so being broncos off-road oriented I’d be happy with 13 sec, but ford comes out and says it’ll be a 21 sec 0-60 even when you add the performance package. Then when you question it everybody’s response is if you want a 13 sec 0-60 you should get a mustang gt, bronco isn’t for you.
 

Gamecock

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If the complaint was that it couldn’t tow 12000lbs I’d completely agree. That’s definitely towing specific truck territory, as 2.1sec 0-60 is definitely supercar territory.
But if you want to actual make that comparison match it’d be more like this -
Ranger and bronco sized suvs have a 0-60 of around 7-8 sec, so being broncos off-road oriented I’d be happy with 13 sec, but ford comes out and says it’ll be a 21 sec 0-60 even when you add the performance package. Then when you question it everybody’s response is if you want a 13 sec 0-60 you should get a mustang gt, bronco isn’t for you.
Bronco has the exact same towing capacity as its targeted competitor. That fact kind of makes your entire argument fall apart. This is a direct Jeep Wrangler competitor.....not a second Explorer. Towing capacity is fine for what it is, and I’m glad they didn’t make other compromises to try to get that number up.
 
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DrewBronc21

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They didn't allow manual transmission with the Sasquatch package so I kinda feel that they need a bit of a Bronc-splaining...
Seems They may consider offering it based on Q&A. They didn’t flat out say NO like they did with 2.7 and Manual questions
 

Cookieck

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Bronco has the exact same rowing capacity as its targeted competitor. That fact kind of makes your entire argument fall apart. This is a direct Jeep Wrangler competitor.....not a second Explorer. Towing capacity is fine for what it is, and I’m glad they didn’t make other compromises to try to get that number up.
Jeep Wrangler has had the basically the same two rating for 30yrs with the only real exception being adding a 4 door. You really gonna say in 30yrs technology hasn’t advanced enough for bronco to have at least half the tow rating of multiple non offroader equivalents? They shouldn’t have to make any extra compromises, make an optional tow package that’s actually a tow package. And the fact there’s a 1500lb difference between the wrangler 2 door and 4 door makes it even more valid. What’s 3500 plus 1500? If 2 door can do 3500 then 4 door should be 5k
 

Mke_80

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I just want to say that it can be done, just look at the 2020 defender 8000 lbs towing capacity, some will argue that it is not the same type of car . They sure both advertise as being off road.

I understand what you are looking for, especially when you talk about one to do it all.

As for the second post the people working in marketing , engineer,conceptions, Designers, they all have a job to do and a catalogue of specs to meet. I don't think they are the type of the one you mentioned.

Sure some would not have known off road or even the over-landing or know why Jeep owner wave at each other on the road, or even do camping once in a while. But that does not make them incapable of building a Bronco. They probably took the time to learn what the community is about, they probably experience it to try to understand. I think they did a very good job. That being said you have the right to think what you want second post! I just wanted to defend them a little since I think they did a nice job.

Food for thought : Maybe Ford wanted to beat the wrangler so bad that they forget to look at the other model and got tunnel vision, maybe the specs to meet or exceed was in the 3500 towing capacity and it was just designed to equal the Wrangler.
 
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eBronco

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Who said you can't tow 5000 lbs? There is no system on the vehicle that will NOT allow it. Just take your time and tow carefully. Who cares what Ford says.

On the other hand, if you tow like crazy person (and I see it all the time), then you are in trouble. I would have no problem towing 5K with a 4 door Bronco in any configuration, with any engine. Just don't be stupid when you do tow.

Now, if you are looking to rent a U-haul, then you are out of luck.
 

North7

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I fully understand if the tow rating of the Badlands and Sasquatches where held way down due to their incredibly soft and long travel suspension made for rock crawling and other extreme off-road fun, but there should be enough compromise in the base suspension. Or even in a specific setup that is less capable off-road. It would still be an amazing vehicle even with a more utilitarian suspension.
Food for thought : Maybe Ford wanted to beat the wrangler so bad that they forget to look at the other model and got tunnel vision, maybe the specs to meet or exceed was in the 3500 towing capacity and it was just designed to equal the Wrangler.
So you wanted a Wrangler competitor, to steal away some of the 200,000 sales, but it does not meet the needs of 5%-10% of the Bronco buyers, is that your point?

The other 90% of us don't want stiff springs with a JARRING ride, just so 5%-10% can have a higher tow capacity.

I'm sure you already know, but for those that do not, let's recap some, not all, of the things that will increase towing capacity:
  1. Spring Rate and Capacity, easily changed and upgraded to different coilovers to better meet your needs.
  2. Tires, upgrade to load range D or E for increased load and tow capacity.
  3. Trailer Hitch, Draw-Tite, Reese and others will come out with a higher capacity frame side-rail (not frame cross-rail) mounted trailer hitches that would increase tow capacity. Or a tow bumper with a higher rating since it attaches into the frame side-rails.
  4. Transmission Cooler, easily added to improve cooling and towing capacity.
All of these are easily achievable for the 5% to 10% that need higher tow capacity thereby leaving a better performing off-road rig for the other 90% of us. It is easy to point out the problems and issues you see with the Bronco, but it only takes a little extra work to come up with solutions.

FordBronco_parts_03 - Copy.jpg
 
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Gamecock

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So you wanted a Wrangler competitor, to steal away some of the 200,000 sales, but it does not meet the needs of 5%-10% of the Bronco buyers, is that your point?

The other 90% of us don't want stiff springs with a JARRING ride, just so 5%-10% can have a higher tow capacity.

I'm sure you already know, but for those that do not, let's recap some, not all, of the things that will increase towing capacity:
  1. Spring Rate and Capacity, easily changed and upgraded to different coilovers to better meet your needs.
  2. Tires, upgrade to load range D or E for increased load and tow capacity.
  3. Trailer Hitch, Draw-Tite, Reese and others will come out with a higher capacity frame side-rail (not frame cross-rail) mounted trailer hitches that would increase tow capacity. Or a tow bumper with a higher rating since it attaches into the frame side-rails.
  4. Transmission Cooler, easily added to improve cooling and towing capacity.
All of these are easily achievable for the 5% to 10% that need higher tow capacity thereby leaving a better performing off-road rig for the other 90% of us. It is easy to point out the problems and issues you see with the Bronco, but it only takes a little extra work to come up with solutions.

FordBronco_parts_03 - Copy.jpg
Great points....but I would think that 5-10% figure is way high...you would be making those changes to pacify well less than 5% with a vehicle like this. Probably 2-3% at best.
Why one would want to tow heavy with a Wrangler / Bronco type off road vehicle is baffling.
 

Bayou_Bronco

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Off-Road suspension is probably more the culprit than the powertrain. This is a purpose built vehicle for off-roading; I'd love a larger tow rating myself but hard to have both.
Glad someone actually understands this. Everyone just seems to look at power numbers and think that means something is good for towing. Great Off-Road suspensions = SOFT, soft = terrible for towing. I'd rather see the Bronco towing numbers at around 5000lbs but not if that sacrifices it's ability off-road. I'll just hook up the boat to the wife's 4Runner.
 

Bayou_Bronco

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Who said you can't tow 5000 lbs? There is no system on the vehicle that will NOT allow it. Just take your time and tow carefully. Who cares what Ford says.
Who cares? You might care after an accident and explaining to your insurance company why you were towing 40% over the manufactures rating towing capacity. 🤷‍♂️

Could you do it, Yes. Should you do it, up to you to decide, but you should understand the possible repercussions.
 

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