Articulation vs traction aids and clearance.

[Nickp]

So I’m curious. My off-road experience is kind of interesting because it’s a bit of a dichotomy. I have my own Jeep, just a base sport on 33’s that I have only taken on pretty light trails. But my other experience with off-roading is with friends who all have pretty extreme rock crawler buggies with full cages and tube bodies, one ton axles, 39”+ tires, etc. and I’ve ridden along on pretty extreme trails. Stuff no JL has ever done, or will do for at least a few years. Bronco will obviously be in the middle of my experiences, but for the more “moderate” trails how do y’all feel that lockers will make up for articulation? The Bronco definitely lifts wheels more than a wrangler does, and I’m curious if Ford is throwing lockers and 35’s at everything to help make it just as capable as a wrangler, it just gets there in a different way. Do any of you who own rubicons or other moderate rigs and wheel a bit harder than me agree/disagree?

Sponsored

 

[Solfive]

I’m by no means the most qualified person to add to this discussion but imo wheels on the ground is extremely important. Even when wheeling a vehicle with tons of articulation the goal for me and whoever is spotting me is to try to “settle” the vehicle. Getting tippy isn’t my personal favorite feeling when playing in the rocks. I love having lockers for loose or slippery terrain, but I also feel like you’re at risk of them helping to pull a front wheel up in the air in some situations. Guess my point is lockers are great but they don’t make up for lack of experience, good spotters, or stability. Hopefully others with far more insight on this will chime in and correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[Felix808]

The lockers are going to be helpful in those lifted wheel scenarios. Anything that helps the vehicle work less to get through the obstacle is a good thing for both the trail & the equipment. Obviously a wheel in the air has zero traction, which results in having to hit things with more momentum if not locked which can lead to more stress on the vehicle & the trail.

 

[Sergio El Bailador]

I agree with your theory. Ford is not shy about targeting the Wrangler and its features and capabilities. It seems like they made design choices that resulted in the Bronco falling short in certain aspects like articulation and clearance, and to overcome those shortcomings they are offering features usually only seen in the top trim or aftermarket (two lockers, 35's).

The "rock crawling" video posted yesterday is disappointing but I do think engaging both lockers will get people through most trails. And just like Jeep folks have to go aftermarket to get a lift or 35's, Bronco folks will have to go aftermarket to improve articulation if they want to improve crawling capability. It's an interesting case of trade-offs and choices OEM's make and how that impacts the final product - similar to IFS and SFA.

 

[BAUS67]

This vid is long but at around the 5 minute mark you will see an XJ trying to get up a hill with no lockers, long story short they winch it up the hill. They explain in the begining how the XJ has no lockers and that it will be fun. and if you watch you can see the red Jeep goes anywhere it wants slow and sure, locked aired down and crawling no drama.

Hanging the tires will add to the "pucker" factor but for the most part it comes back down just as easy when you have lockers, more control. Without lockers you will need more speed to traverse certain obstacles, once a tire leaves the ground it's spin city and all forward momentum stops.

Check out the vid it is easy to see.

 

[jtzako]

3 wheels on the ground isnt that big a deal if you have lockers. I'd much rather have a vehicle that works properly in the 95% of places that I dont need that much articulation. Even the vehicles I've been around that can articulate that much it is more often for posing than actually required to get through the obstacle.

 

[BAUS67]

Posted this in another thread but here is my grizzly crossing a wash like the short vid of the Bronc. Hanging the tire happens a lot on the grizzly so I am used to it but it will make you pucker

 

[Stampede.Offroad]

Posted this in another thread but here is my grizzly crossing a wash like the short vid of the Bronc. Hanging the tire happens a lot on the grizzly so I am used to it but it will make you pucker

There is an enormous difference with a vehicle that you ride instead of drive ... your'e not going to be able to use body language to keep traction in a 5000lb truck like you can with a 600lb quad.

I'm not worried when I only have 2-3 wheels on the ground with a quad, but **** can be real sketchy in a heavier vehicle losing contact and traction. If you tip your quad its an inconvenience to roll it back over and keep going -- do that with your truck and you'll probably be done for at least an hour and looking at thousand in repairs.

 

[Frank N]

Lockers in deep loose sand are priceless.

Carry on rock heads.

 

[Dads_bronze_bronco]

So for Jeep JKs, I thought the magic tire sizes were 35’s for 2 doors and 37’s for 4 doors. This implies you have to go up at least 2-1/2”, maybe a little more for the 37’s if you don’t want to trim the front corner of the rear wheel well. On a Rubicon that puts you at something like 15-16” of ground clearance.

A spec Rubicon JK has about the same ground clearance as A spec Badlands, no Squatch. At that height I was scraping and dinging the protection plates in Uwharrie on some of the moderate trails. At 14-1/2 I am not. Some of that is break over on a 4 door.

Net, I think stock Badlands is a little low, but Squatch doesn’t get you high enough and limits your articulation. The good news is the gearing is in place to handle the tires with Squatch/auto or Badlands /7MT.

Lockers yes. Disconnect yes. Why not have both articulation and lockers? Lockers are first priority though.

That said a Squatched Black Diamond with manual disconnect links and checking out the dealer 2-1/2” lift option or the lift on a Badlands would probably have you set for most places people drive road legal vehicles off-road.

 

[King Luis]

i'm definitely new to all this. but no one has mentioned the traction control part of it. Land Rovers have only a rear (and some have a centre) locker, but the big thing that makes LRs so good in slippery conditions is their traction control system is so good. now being new and still learning about a lot of the off road bits, how does TC come into play with a locker? is a locker like a limited slip diff or more of a welded diff?

 

[rkj__]

So I’m curious. My off-road experience is kind of interesting because it’s a bit of a dichotomy. I have my own Jeep, just a base sport on 33’s that I have only taken on pretty light trails. But my other experience with off-roading is with friends who all have pretty extreme rock crawler buggies with full cages and tube bodies, one ton axles, 39”+ tires, etc. and I’ve ridden along on pretty extreme trails. Stuff no JL has ever done, or will do for at least a few years. Bronco will obviously be in the middle of my experiences, but for the more “moderate” trails how do y’all feel that lockers will make up for articulation? The Bronco definitely lifts wheels more than a wrangler does, and I’m curious if Ford is throwing lockers and 35’s at everything to help make it just as capable as a wrangler, it just gets there in a different way. Do any of you who own rubicons or other moderate rigs and wheel a bit harder than me agree/disagree?

My assessment is that a stock 4x4 with lockers front and rear will usually take that vehicle anywhere it should go, and has clearance to go. It will also be more composed while getting there.

I watch a bit of Dirtnation Off Road on YouTube. They do off road runs, with fairly large groups, which allows you to see how a wide variety of vehicles perform on different obstacles. Unlike most groups, Wranglers are not the majority of the vehicles. Taking the Wrangler out of the discussion, it's common to see ZR2s walk up steep climbs with ease, where most other vehicles are using a bit of momentum, and spinning tires.

The ZR2 does not have massive articulation, or clearance for massive tires. So, watching how it performs, is one of the better vehicles to watch, to set your expectations for the Bronco.

Here's a video that features a ZR2, and a variety of other vehicles, some of which have way more articulation.

 

[Nickp]

My assessment is that a stock 4x4 with lockers front and rear will usually take that vehicle anywhere it should go, and has clearance to go. It will also be more composed while getting there.

I watch a bit of Dirtnation Off Road on YouTube. They do off road runs, with fairly large groups, which allows you to see how a wide variety of vehicles perform on different obstacles. Unlike most groups, Wranglers are not the majority of the vehicles. Taking the Wrangler out of the discussion, it's common to see ZR2s walk up steep climbs with ease, where most other vehicles are using a bit of momentum, and spinning tires.

The ZR2 does not have massive articulation, or clearance for massive tires. So, watching how it performs, is one of the better vehicles to watch, to set your expectations for the Bronco.

Here's a video that features a ZR2, and a variety of other vehicles, some of which have way more articulation.

That’s a great video. Shows about as hard of a trail I’d want to do in my Bronco and I’m sure about as hard as 99% of Bronco owners will want to do as well. Seems like the IFS vehicles in this video struggle more with approach/departure/breakover along with clearance related issues more than anything, which Bronco will obviously not have nearly as many issues with. Definitely they have some problems with flex, but the lockers do indeed help.

Going to be interesting to see how it plays out!

 

[BAUS67]

There is an enormous difference with a vehicle that you ride instead of drive ... your'e not going to be able to use body language to keep traction in a 5000lb truck like you can with a 600lb quad.

I'm not worried when I only have 2-3 wheels on the ground with a quad, but **** can be real sketchy in a heavier vehicle losing contact and traction. If you tip your quad its an inconvenience to roll it back over and keep going -- do that with your truck and you'll probably be done for at least an hour and looking at thousand in repairs.

Yes there is a big difference. I posted this only to show how easy it is to hang the tires, everyone here had a fit when they saw the Bronc lifting the tires. Why is that, what's going on, must not have any travel, etc.

it is the nature of the beast with IFS. This is why it is important to have lockers because without them you need momentum to clear obstacles and with momentum(read: speed) it will get you in trouble. Try climbing a hill and no lockers, instead of just crawling up it you need to gun it at the bottom to have enough speed to make it the top. then the large bolder you are trying to get over suddenly throws you into a tree sideways. SMASH !!! Now same scenario with lockers you just cruise right up because the speed is not needed. to maintain forward bite. Watch the XJ in the Lite Brite vid above he tries with speed and more than once, just about wacks the tree beside the trail. Later in the vid he tries the trail called Barney Rubble, lots of wheel speed and lots of bouncing, VERY uncontrollable, with lockers you are in control even with a tire in the air.

Second pic is one I post long ago, just to show how you can't get the same articulation from IFS you can from a solid axle. one pivots side to side and the other only pivots at the end.

 

[Sergio El Bailador]

What model Ram was in the video? It handles the obstacles well but the width clearance was very tight in some areas. The Bronco is wide even with mirrors folded - it'll probably be close on trails with tighter sections.

Sponsored