As we enter month 24 since reserving, I find myself staring at Jeeps...

[JohnG]

I say its not.. i have no wondering at all (beyond slight corrections that everyone has to make in every vehicle on the road)

For example, Just did that trip, almost 2k miles at 70+ mph and can take my hands off the wheel even while going over bumps.

Problem isnt the vehicle (assuming the owner didnt mess it up with all the mods), it's the driver.

As a bike rider it becomes very clear. Motorcycles like Jeeps want to be stable...physics dictates it. A jeeps caster and its steering component angles is what makes the jeep want to go straight.

What causes it to not go straight are drivers/riders that are not relaxed and are trying to stiff arm and muscle how the vehicle reacts onstead of letting the vehicle and suspension do what it was designed to do.

Somewhat related is a saying my instructor used to say about performance riding on a bike...the worse thing you can do to a motorcycles handling is put a rider on it. Same goes for a jeep. If all things spec'd out correctly on a jeep, the issue is the driver.

Uh, wrong. Saying you can learn to drive it straight doesn‘t do anything to change the fact that there is an issue with its drivability. There aren’t countless people on forums complaining about broncos wandering, there’s no learning curve to drive broncos straight. It’s a Jeep thing. Jeep steering is different, and whether you train yourself to not notice it at all, or just live in denial as you do, it doesn’t change the fact that this is a known issue complained about by thousands of people on every Jeep forum.

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[JohnG]

Thank you! I do really hope Ford comes through. The reality is I'll already be waiting another month to place a Jeep order, and at that point it will be another 3-4 months to get a 2023 delivered, based on current info.

I could cancel or abandon the Jeep order if there is actual movement with my Bronco order in the next 4-5 month. However, if the Jeep is delivered and the Bronco is STILL not scheduled, we'd be talking about a total 28-29 month wait, interest rates will continue to rise, and there's a good possibility Carvana (where I plan to sell my daily) won't be around by year's end, given current market indicators (stock has dropped 90% year to date, layoffs of 12% of staff, etc).

At a certain point, I'll just have to move on. I've given Ford two years to schedule me, and I'm willing to spot them another couple seasons...

A friend of mine just bought a wrangler rubicon for the very reasons you are thinking about it. He kept his bronco order just in case, but got tired of waiting (He was an Oct 2020 reservation, still no VIN). He loves it. Jeeps are awesome, better than broncos in many ways. Do it!

 

[patientB]

Generally speaking, you can put 35s on a Rubi with no mods (possibly wheel spacers if factory rims but unsure)..as long as you drive on pavement. Once you go off road and start flexing, they will rub...

Which means you then need a small (2") lift. Of course lifting the Jeep from factory specs causes 4 main issues...

1) the front axle moves more towards the back of the jeep, it also moves more to the side (off center) and it changes the caster.. most of this can be fixed with adjustable arms, but it can get costly.

2) The factory front driveline is built to last. But once you lift the front, it puts the joints at a steeper angle than they can do for a long time ( strongly depends on how much of an actual lift you end up with). The solution is a significant retrofit and a $400 axle

3) the front drive line can now hit the exhaust pipe. So there are fixes for that but a bit funky with exhaust spacers to drop the exhaust lower to clear the axle...now if you included the aftermarket front axle to help with issue #2, spacer may not be needed. Also the rear axle can flex enough with a lift to hit the evap canister so a relocation kit may be in order.

4) Depending on where you live, 35s may require re-gearing to 4.56 at a min. So toss in a couple grand for that.


Sounds like alot but jeep people do it all the time. If it is done with good parts, you shouldn't have any steering issues. However, slapping 35s on a jeep, will cost you like 5k+ on top of the actual tires

This information is a bit dated.

The Bronco's Sasquatch option has forced Jeep to "improve the breed" by offering a factory solution of the Xtreme Recon package on the Willy and Rubicon trim levels.

Invoice for this package is $3596.

As with the Ford volume dealers, there are several Jeep dealers offering "fly in, drive home" orders for vehicles, with average fixed pricing of 6% below invoice.

There are no current parts/chip constraints on Wrangler builds.

 

[Eric H]

I bought an early build JL 2 door in 2018. When new it drove like a dream. About 5K in it started to wander and I fought that for quite a while. Jeep issued a couple of TSB's in that era. 1 for the steering stabilizer and 1 for the steering box. Once those were replaced it drove great for a 2 door on 33s - by far the best for the Jeeps I've owned (CJ, YJ, TJ).

I think Jeep has the JL pretty well sorted out now. I drove a friends '21 4dr Sahara a while back and it was amazing. I'm not a 4dr fan but the added wheelbase, and smaller wheel package, really made it drive nice.

 

[MayhemMike]

...today I rejoined TREAD LIGHTLY to get the old 1% below invoice on a Wrangler

...I talked to a JL owner about likes/dislikes,

...and Jeep just updated their "Build and Price" with info on the 2023 Wrangler.

I've TRIED to be strong, but my 7/14/20 reservation for a 2 door, 7MT, high Sasquatch might not survive the next couple weeks of waiting for a VIN...

You note your ” reservation“ date, but when did you place an actual order?

 

[patientB]

You note your ” reservation“ date, but when did you place an actual order?

January 27, 2021

 

[MayhemMike]

January 27, 2021

Have you placed the required second order( October 2021 ) since only MY 22 would be built after that cut off date?

 

[patientB]

Yup. 10/13/21 at 4:05 pm.

My dealer is highly responsive. There is a thread specifically for that dealer in the ORDERS forum, with an order spreadsheet that is updated regularly.

In late March, I was #11 on the timestamped list. I am now #7 on that list. Many order have filled in behind me. My dealer has received no allocation for order conversions since May.

 

[Wolfeman]

I would only buy a Jeep with a 392. Only thing they offer, in my opinion, that has an advantage over the Bronco. I'm not a big rock crawl guy, so don't @ me about solid axles.

 

[patientB]

I would only buy a Jeep with a 392. Only thing they offer, in my opinion, that has an advantage over the Bronco. I'm not a big rock crawl guy, so don't @ me about solid axles.

I would only buy a Jeep if Ford doesn't move my status to "Scheduled for Production" before a factory ordered Jeep is delivered.

 

[AZ_Liberty]

July 14th 2022 will mark two years...730 days since I put down a deposit to get my name on the reservation list. 1:04 AM in the morning of 7/14/2020.

Your Profile shows a Badlands on order, the Reservation shows a Base.

I assume it's a Badlands? Most of the 1st/2nd day order holders who have not been fulfilled seem to be either Badlands or Wildtrack.

 

[patientB]

Your Profile shows a Badlands on order, the Reservation shows a Base.

I assume it's a Badlands? Most of the 1st/2nd day order holders who have not been fulfilled seem to be either Badlands or Wildtrack.

Yep. Badlands. 2 door. 7MT. Sasquatch. High package. No tow package...at least there's that!

Constrained out the wazoo.

It's cool, if Ford can't build it in 2022, maybe then can in 2025 or 2026.

 

[DryYourTears]

I would only buy a Jeep if Ford doesn't move my status to "Scheduled for Production" before a factory ordered Jeep is delivered.

This is sort of what I did, but I didn't hold out as long (same reservation date, but I was a few hours after you). In June 2021 I ordered a different vehicle, but kept my 4-door Badlands order. The competition arrived Sept 1st (just under three months from order) and the Badlands ended up getting to the dealership almost 5 months later in late January 2022 (and was promptly sold to someone, so it worked out fine for my Ford dealer, who are great people).

No regrets.

 

[AMK610]

I had a JLUR, most fun vehicle with the most character you can buy on todays market, but I didn’t want to keep it long term. I couldn’t live with the paint issues (bubbling on hood, bubbling/corroding around the door hinges). I know ford has had paint bubbling issues in the past too, and the bronco is too to tell if it’ll have issues. The wrangler lacks a lot of refinement as well which is what gives it its character, but that character makes it a pretty poor daily driver. Depends on what you’re looking for and can live with

 

[patientB]

I had a JLUR, most fun vehicle with the most character you can buy on todays market, but I didn’t want to keep it long term. I couldn’t live with the paint issues (bubbling on hood, bubbling/corroding around the door hinges). I know ford has had paint bubbling issues in the past too, and the bronco is too to tell if it’ll have issues. The wrangler lacks a lot of refinement as well which is what gives it its character, but that character makes it a pretty poor daily driver. Depends on what you’re looking for and can live with

Thanks! Yeah, I had a 1998 TJ 4 cyl 5spd Sport, and a 2015 Willy Wheeler Unlimited JK auto softtop before.

Looking forward to experiencing a 2023 Rubicon JL *OR* a 2022 Bronco Badlands. Whichever is the winner will be a new experience, either way!

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