Brakes Failure on highway - known issue according to dealership?

[Lxatoledo]

This is super scary and 1st gen is not an excuse for Ford. The brakes should be the highest priority system. This is the 2nd story I am aware of on this forum about brakes failing (the other was on a 2.7L). I haven't heard of that happening in all my years and now 2 on the Bronco.

All of the sudden, the 2.7 dropping valves seems elementary.

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[CoolTech]

Everything was great until…Some jerk swerved in front of me to avoid being behind a semi truck chugging uphill.

OP - it sounds like you were going uphill during the time of the incident? (Assumption 1)
The 2.3 is still using a traditional vacuum-assist brake booster. (Assumption 2)

*IF* the assumptions are correct, what happened is that the incline made it such that the engine was no longer producing vacuum - and quite possibly was producing a small amount of boost (positive pressure). Note that in "normal" level-road cruising, the engine is producing quite a bit of vacuum. However, when you are going up a hill, a normally aspirated engine approaches 0 vacuum and a turbo-charged engine will even produce pressure in these scenarios. Normally there is a check valve in the line from the intake manifold to the brake booster that would prevent the brake booster from losing its volume of vacuum. It sounds like there's some kind of defect in this implementation.

Anyway, if you and/or the dealership wants to re-create the condition, you need a long hill or similar - something that will require the engine to be under a constant load..... followed by an immediate application of the brakes. This immediate application of the brakes will tell you if the brake booster reservoir has been depleted (no assisted brakes) or not.

Back in the day, cruise control systems also used vacuum to hold the accelerator cable at the desired position. If you went up a long hill with your cruise control on, sometimes the cruise control would drop-out because it ran out of the vacuum needed to hold the cable in the right position. Carmakers have known about this "issue" for a long time. Some manufacturers (VW is one of them) will incorporate an electric vacuum pump on some of their turbo-diesel models to help insure that the brake booster always has a good source of vacuum.

 

[Oly]

The dealership warranty replaced my ABS/Master Cyl./Brake Booster unit several weeks ago due to braking issue. My issue was not at speed but on inclines and at very slow speeds when I was slowly coming to a stop. Took 3-weeks to get the part.

According to the tech I spoke to he was looking at the the known issue Ford site he has access to and this issue was posted on Nov 30th — did they tell you the same?

 

[Lxatoledo]

Sounds like potential major lawsuits if someone ends up severely injured or dead. Ford better get their shit straight on this issue!

I have functioning brakes, w/disc brake conversion and brake booster and new master cylinder on my EB---------a 1975 vehicle because wheeling next to, down and up cliffs is dangerous.........Something like this fails on Black Bear and/or similar, Standing on the brakes or pulling over isn't gonna help much. Concerning.

 

[mrdibbles]

According to the tech I spoke to he was looking at the the known issue Ford site he has access to and this issue was posted on Nov 30th — did they tell you the same?

My vehicle was taken to my Ford Dealer on 11/13 and the work was performed on 12/3. Who knows... maybe my vehicle could be why Ford posted the issue on it's internal Service site on 11/30?

Here's the specifics of what I was experiencing.

 

[Headsong]

That's an item for immediate and do not pass go recall. NTSB should be on this.

 

[Theherofails]

Just jumping in here to clarify this. The brake is not electromagnetic and doesn’t fail on. If and when the electronic parking brake fails it fails in place. The brake is just an electric motor spinning a gear set attached to a piston on a worm screw inside the rear caliper piston, essentially a linear actuator. All that happens is it extends or retracts the caliper piston. No electromagnets and no possible way for it to fail on unless the failure involved it getting power to engage it until it burned out the motor or stopped working while it was engaged.

It does fail on. I know this factually, because when my parking brake failed - it left me stranded in the on position. I had to clear the original fault in order for the parking bake system to clear it's fault and release the brake so I could move the vehicle.

Couldn't even recover the vehicle and ended up blowing a bead dragging the tires.

 

[Firefight911]

Maybe there’s multiple approaches to an issue? Fact finding being one of those. Holding the company accountable for their product is another.

Fact-finding...not chicken little. Re-read my posts and all the others. There is a lot of chicken little going in.

Having an anonymous user telling everyone they’re a firefighter and former marine and how they should react on a forum…devoted to sharing information on that product… is another approach.

So, while I appreciate your service, I don’t appreciate your approach to condemn others for asking questions and conveying their concerns.

None of my post is condemning. I apologize if you, or anyone else, got that out of it. This was never my intent. What it is, a call to stop reacting and swinging the pendulum so far to one side or the other without facts.

I think you have a good opinion about preparing for catastrophic failure, but how many Bronco Reservation holders do you believe have a manual to look at? Would that manual explain this very severe issue? How many future Bronco owners will be aware of something so widely known by the techs who work on the vehicle but that is being kept secret.

100% of all Bronco owners, past, presrent, and future, can access the owner's manual right now. It is free and available online. Yes, it does explain a "very severe issue." That's why it's call and emergency brake. No one knows anything about the internals of Ford, techs, etc. Is the referenced information merely a note added to FDRS identifying a circumstance for FZord to review to determine if there is an issue? We don't know. Is there a TSB? We don't know, fact-finding is needed with pointed questions from the OP to his dealer. A possible goal here with input from everyone, along with awareness to all about something that may, or may not be, an issue throughout the lineup.

Let’s face it… @Ford Motor Company hasn’t earned the benefit of our doubt (Hello Pinto!). It’s perfectly acceptable to remind them their poor decisions to place profits (Sales-recalls/lawsuits) over customers is FRESH in the buyers mindset.

No dispute, I remember the Pinto issue, though dated in really being able to use it as justification for an issue today.

This current environment (delayed launch, pandemic, rampant supplier & design issues) is RIPE for negligence. You being a fire fighter should understand this is procedurally a part of insuring the vehicles safety systems are up to par.

To this, I could not agree more. Recent history, Explorer roll out, many of the true Bronco issues all fall within this. I don't dispute systems being up to par, as you indicate, but, let's call on the OP for some things. Was he aware that the pedal would be wooden and heavy, requiring a far greater force to apply the brakes without the assist system functioning? This is a redundant system. was he aware of the option to utilize the e-brake and how it would react? I applaud his resourcefulness in utilizing the manual shift feature to reduce his speed as he did, this is a great option to exercise. Also, there is no such thing as a utopia where things don't fail. It is, as I clearly stated, up to us to respond with facts and available options when faced with a primary system failure, and not react.

This is good dialog and can certainly help others who are unaware or haven't considered the available options at their disposal when faced with some issue while operating their vehicle.

 

[Theherofails]

I am just clarifying that it’s not electronically held in a way that if there was a loss of electricity they would suddenly become engaged on their own if not previously engaged. It’s a polarity based motor. One way engages one way disengages. There’s nothing that will just lock them in place if you have a failure outside of them failing already locked in place or the mode of failure causing them to receive power that would extend them. If you go back there and unplug them they will remain in their last known state and it’s also how you override them if you need to in an emergency, though a jumper plug and battery are required

I agree. The physical system works as you've explained. The software controlling it, not so much.

I had a ground loose from the factory that became apparent about 45 days into ownership.. as I had a total vehicle malfunction (every error code possible). Parking brake failed to the on position (even heard it activate)
and forced me to drag the vehicle with locked tires. It wasn't until I cleared the error codes by fixing the ground (it's a bolt right by the wiring harness on the passenger side firewall under the hood) that the parking brake would disengage.

That was the second time the parking brake failed to the on position as well, because it also happened when I got stuck in quicksand. I lost a bead that time dragging the tires. Quite hard to pull a vehicle out of quicksand when it won't even roll..

 

[Jofenech]

I just have to put this out there for all the “scared” people posting. First, we are hearing a dealer said statement which means all y’all better have had that mandatory drink. Second, let’s chill some and not lose our reasoning to understand that this could be a one off issue. It could also be a big issue, we don’t know yet. Third, practice your emergency procedures. I have never understood a responsible person who claims that their wife, daughter, son, mom, dog drive a vehicle yet are unaware of the available procedures and systems available to them in an emergency. Read the manual, practice the procedure in a safe environment, and don’t expect it to stick with one read. Review it and refresh periodically.

I know, soap box, but a life long career as a firefighter, a life of aviation and flying in my blood, a precious Marine Corps career servicing all the electronics systems on fighter aircraft, and a desperate love of my family and anyone who might ride in a vehicle I own, mandates a level of preparedness well beyond hopping in and hitting the start button. My wife still gives me playful grief whenever we leave or arrive as I go through all the “procedures”, especially at arrival where the HVAC is turned off, the radio turned down, all electrics powered off, etc. before I turn off the engine.

Flame away but we need to be pragmatic in our approach to these things and be personally responsible for the outcome of any use of our Broncos.

And, we have a 2.3 l Bronco in our possession with our second Bronco being built week of 1-10-22 with the 2.7 l. I have as much skin in the game as anyone here.

Well said !

 

[mrdibbles]

My Service Manager, at the Dealership, mentioned this as being a similar and known issue on F150.

See here:
https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/threads/brake-booster-recall-announced-for-2021-f-150.4857/

 

[threeonone]

After reading this thread I have a question about my own brakes. Since I got my bronco I found the brake pedal always had a lot of push-back/resistance. Like there is a strong spring pushing it back. At stop lights I either wedge my foot between the floor and the brake to kind of brace it or end put my second foot behind my first to brace it. I have a 2.3 badlands auto. Anyone else have this experience or should I ask the dealer to take a look? Always seemed a bit odd to me but just chalked it up as being a more rugged non-luxury vehicle that I was used to.

 

[omega145]

"Almost died"
Brake failures happen across vehicles. The nature of mechanical things. Definitely should be looked at and should be a recall if it's a "known issue".

 

[4wJive]

So I almost died driving my 4 door Outer Banks on the freeway the other day. My wife and I were driving out to Hilton Head for a 10k. Everything was great until…Some jerk swerved in front of me to avoid being behind a semi truck chugging uphill.

This is where I almost died…

When I went to hit the brakes the pedal was impossible to press, the Bronco’s dashboard lit up saying something like brake error: check brake system. I luckily was able to slow down by using the manual shift selector on the side of the gear shift and basically standing on the brake pedal and immediately pulled over. I got out and checked the brakes after turning the car off and on. The brake pedal was now able to depress, but the brakes were super spongey. I drove to the closest Ford dealership and had them check it out. The tech came back after a few min and said it was a known issue with the Brake Vacuum and it has to come from Michigan.

This just happened so I’m getting more info as they can’t order the part until tomorrow, but I’ll update as I have more info.

I know 1st gen products have issues but this one is a really big problem. Good thing I wasn’t on the trail next to a cliff otherwise I wouldn’t be here.

Driving 70 mph on the freeway and you go to hit the brakes and there are none… scared the crap out of me. Driving a rental and now I have PTSD every time I brake.

Anyone else heard of this for the 4doors? I know the sport had a brake recall, but not 100% sure this is the same issue?

Uhhh…makes you wish you had a ‘REAL EMERGENCY BRAKE!!!’

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