Bronco EV from the "Power Company Guy" Perspective

[BroncoAZ]

I think it makes sense for fleets to try a small number of them out before making wholesale conversions.

I manage the company fleet of 150 trucks. The 2021 experiment was Silverado 1500 diesels, I purchased four and they are working out well. I have a personal Lightning reservation that I plan on using for the company. I’ll likely take the first electric as my personal truck and go from there.

Our biggest challenge in going electric is that 80% of the fleet goes home with the employees at night. Many of the employees live in urban areas and park their trucks on the street. Another challenge is paying for the electricity used at their homes if possible, I don’t want to deal with reimbursement. Until there is a smart charging station we can put at an employee’s house and it directly bills the company we won’t have mass adoption.

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[doublethebass]

I manage the company fleet of 150 trucks. The 2021 experiment was Silverado 1500 diesels, I purchased four and they are working out well. I have a personal Lightning reservation that I plan on using for the company. I’ll likely take the first electric as my personal truck and go from there.

Our biggest challenge in going electric is that 80% of the fleet goes home with the employees at night. Many of the employees live in urban areas and park their trucks on the street. Another challenge is paying for the electricity used at their homes if possible, I don’t want to deal with reimbursement. Until there is a smart charging station we can put at an employee’s house and it directly bills the company we won’t have mass adoption.

That’s a great point. Would some sort of per-mile reimbursement be just as much of a pain? Bet it would be easier than figuring out the electricity reimbursement.

I’ve got a company vehicle now with a fleet card and I’d have the same problem. It’ll be interesting to see where things go with this.

 

[BroncoAZ]

That’s a great point. Would some sort of per-mile reimbursement be just as much of a pain? Bet it would be easier than figuring out the electricity reimbursement.

I’ve got a company vehicle now with a fleet card and I’d have the same problem. It’ll be interesting to see where things go with this.

The CFO is against any kind of reimbursement programs, it’s easy for them to get off track and get abused. We use the Wex cards now for fuel. I could certainly see a future program where the Wex cards are good at electric fast charging stations. We will get to a point in a number of years where charging is a 5 minute process. I’m not looking forward to the early complications when the employee forgets to charge and can’t get to work the next day.

 

[whatyhow]

Living in Colorado and almost being stuck in the Bomb cyclone March 13th 2019, I was glad that I had my truck. I passed possibly 100 stranded vehicles several of which were electric. Keep in mind they may have a 300 mile range on a good warm afternoon with no accessories turned on. Running the heat in the winter shortens you range. Interstate highways and back roads here are closed often in the winter. I carry extra fuel for this very reason. If this situation happens again and the highways are closed they may find me a lone survivor and several popsicles in other vehicles.
I could even provide fuel for others stranded but still be unable to charge their toaster.
It may even come down to defending myself. People will do a lot of crazy things to get what you have so they can survive. Scary stuff.

I was in that bomb cyclone as well. My buddy had to sleep at the walmart in falcon. The real issue is that EV batteries require strip mining and disposing of the old batteries is a real problem. Who just got the mining rights in afghanistan? https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...create-united-front-on-afghanistan/ar-AAQ1nWw

 

[jehines3]

10,000 BTU per kWh (i.e. ~3,400 btu) is reasonable estimate of energy consumed to produce 1-kWh output @ power-plant - before transmission powerline losses to the home, which cut another 6% roughly -
And that drop from 10,000 to 3,400 can't be helped - you have theoretical limits imposed by thermodynamics. Not caused by 'inefficient' power-plant.

And still have 'local' EV losses to consider - charging/discharging batteries, electric motors, mechanical power delivery to the wheels - all have significant losses - more waste -
And batteries become very inefficient in low-temperature and high-temperature - can drop by half -

Yes I agree, ICE efficiency already in the MPG -

Comparison also depends type of ICE. In '78 bought a diesel Rabbit consistent 55-mpg freeway -

Yeah nuclear is good path for EV to make more sense. Then electricity could be dirt cheap if big dysfunctional gov't gets out of way. Not sure when Green River goes online -



Years ago there were reports of similar project w Sandia Labs in Los Alamos ?

A modern Combined Cycle Gas Turbine efficiency is in the range of 5500-6500BTU/kWh. the numbers you quote are simple cycle peaking plants. We need base load for mass adoption.

 

[BRBlue]

If you plan on actually using the Bronco for it’s designed intent then an EV is a total nonstarter. There are severe range limitations when tackling off road terrain especially in the mountains.

Check out TFL’s results when testing the Bronco against the hybrid Jeep 4Xe (start at the 23 min mark)…

 

[Murph914]

My problem with pure EV plays is if the entire global fleet was replaced in 10 years, there wouldn't be enough energy available at any point in a standard day to allow normal mileage. We desperately need durable base load generation where wind and solar are intermittent and dilute. Nuclear is the only generation capability that meets carbon free requirements and we've been decommissioning faster than building next generation replacements. Hydrogen has dirty secrets that make it a terrible long term solution - ie. Leakage, and it's a battery, energy input to make or crack it is required. If it's a hard mandate, our economy is fuct.

I ran a machine shop that made prts for power plants for 50 years. Imdustrial vane controls and air dampeners mostly for Westinghouse and their acquired companies like Greenfan, Strutevant, American Blower. We had parts in most fossil fuel plants. I was forced to close up when all the plants closed and the industry went to hell. I can tell you from the front lines the situation is bleak. The plants are all being forced to close or run so tight they can’t expect to handle any disruptions. All this with EXTREME political pressure to stay up with costs down and say nothing publicly that would challenge the political agenda of “clean energy”.

As more and more watts are lost to the grid there will continue to be more and more brown outs like we have seen in CA and TX. Our biggest customers were TVA Pacificorp and Georgia Power. Basically gone now, and desperate for answers.

having a car plugged into your garage is fine for 5,000 sq foot house, but imagine 500 plugged in next to an apartment complex… where do all those watts come from?

France is the only one with the answers, but the doe has made nukes so inconceivably expensive it’s laughable. I had to double my pricing just to break even when selling to Indian Point in NY.
/rant

 

[Bituman]

Hybrids have been abandoned as a mid-step at GM and other Tesla wanna-bes as not enough, but I'd only relent on my manual purchase for a hybrid that has the ability to power either the front axle or in series with the drive train and have a significant bump in performance Ala the 3.0 Aviator hybrid with over 600 lb-ft. of torque... Performance hybrids need not be a halo exclusive, democratizing efficiency and power should promote adoption rather than be accessible to only those capable of paying a premium, as has been the old way of marketing. In that regard, the Maverick is an excellent first step, but the B-Sport and Bronco also should have launched with at least one hybrid option, especially the MY22 versions. That obviously didn't happen...
Jeep has the weak 4xe, but Ford does not have parody.

Really agree with this. I understand the barriers to EV adoption. But aren’t hybrids a good incremental step between today’s world and a full on EV world? Plus, being a gear head, I’m pretty excited about the performance capabilities of the hybrids and the MPG improvements. Other than price (as you point out), what’s the down side? I’ve been giving a long look at a Platinum F-150 armed with a Powerboost power plant. Still in favor of a Bronco, but every day that goes by I creep a little closer to that F-150.

 

[Hossfire]

I ran a machine shop that made prts for power plants for 50 years. Imdustrial vane controls and air dampeners mostly for Westinghouse and their acquired companies like Greenfan, Strutevant, American Blower. We had parts in most fossil fuel plants. I was forced to close up when all the plants closed and the industry went to hell. I can tell you from the front lines the situation is bleak. The plants are all being forced to close or run so tight they can’t expect to handle any disruptions. All this with EXTREME political pressure to stay up with costs down and say nothing publicly that would challenge the political agenda of “clean energy”.

As more and more watts are lost to the grid there will continue to be more and more brown outs like we have seen in CA and TX. Our biggest customers were TVA Pacificorp and Georgia Power. Basically gone now, and desperate for answers.

having a car plugged into your garage is fine for 5,000 sq foot house, but imagine 500 plugged in next to an apartment complex… where do all those watts come from?

France is the only one with the answers, but the doe has made nukes so inconceivably expensive it’s laughable. I had to double my pricing just to break even when selling to Indian Point in NY.
/rant

France is in good shape. Unlike most of the US/Canada, the European grid is broken up into smaller A/C grids which are connected by D/C flow gates. France doesn't need to bail out its neighbor's unreliable, high renewable systems. Our country should be looking at doubling its nuclear fleet and reprocessing spent fuel.

 

[ohvrider]

And EV car for commuting or truck maybe but an off-road explorer really needs a way to add range in middle of woods etc. I think a plug in hybrid with 100 miles EV range would be better or an extended range EV like Chevy volt were its 100% electric but gas motor is basically just there to recharge the batteries.

Then you can have best of both worlds.

 

[North7]

Hey Bronco fans. I work in a market research area at a fairly large electric utility. I have done some EV studies and am fairly well versed in the decisions that the OEMs are making.

Here are some thoughts:

Charging infrastructure is still a big barrier to consumer acceptance. Since the Bronco is built for the "wild", a hybrid option seems more likely than full EV in the near future. Ford will be closely watching Jeep's hybrid model.

Hey Bronco fans. I don't work in a market research area at a fairly large electric utility, I work at the school of common sense and know the grid cannot handle the load from massive amounts of EV's, just look at the California and Texas brown and blackouts. It will take much grid capacity, but since no one wants more natural gas or nuke power plants, good luck. It does not take a market research firm to tell us that, but then hey, that's why they get paid the big consulting bucks.

I've said it more than once, EV's are not practical for extended off-road trips in the middle of nowhere...

We need it to be a hybrid not an EV!

Bronco Hybrid for the win...
https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/search/5171550/?q=hybrid&c[title_only]=1&o=date

 

[Ipe]

My diesel F350 can go between 500 and 600 miles on a full tank if I'm not towing. I can stop nearly anywhere and fill that tank in under five minutes and then continue on my way for another 500-600 miles ad infinitum. When EV's can perform that trick then maybe I'll be interested. Until then EV's are at best a commuter vehicle or at worse a pretentious toy for those wanting to virtue signal.
Really, if you want to get dark about it, EV's are a tool designed to become impractical as their continued adaptation destroys an overworked electrical grid. This in turn drives the populace from the country and suburbs into overpacked cities and their mass transit systems. You will "drive" a seat on a train or bus and you'll be told to be quiet and like it. I pray to God that I'm wrong but the communists in power seem hellbent on making it so, so.....

Really looking forward to getting my Bronco someday though!

 

[jehines3]

My problem with pure EV plays is if the entire global fleet was replaced in 10 years, there wouldn't be enough energy available at any point in a standard day to allow normal mileage. We desperately need durable base load generation where wind and solar are intermittent and dilute. Nuclear is the only generation capability that meets carbon free requirements and we've been decommissioning faster than building next generation replacements. Hydrogen has dirty secrets that make it a terrible long term solution - ie. Leakage, and it's a battery, energy input to make or crack it is required. If it's a hard mandate, our economy is fuct.

As a power expert, this view is pretty spot on and very factual. To address another concern. I had a hybrid for a bit. The issue here is you wind up with the least benefits over ownership. You essentially own an ICE and an EV in one. You also unfortunately get the maintenance that comes with both. Oil changes, spark plugs, and a battery replacement down the road.

A dual car vehicle household would be best with one ICE and one EV for the time being. This assumes you have the ability toadd in home charging and your commute doesn’t contribute to range anxiety.

Finally, energy conversion is not free. Each conversion has with losses. Using liquid dense fuels in transportation is actually quite efficient. We can’t build enough battery storage for transportation and grid simultaneously.

 

[North7]

My diesel F350 can go between 500 and 600 miles on a full tank if I'm not towing. I can stop nearly anywhere and fill that tank in under five minutes and then continue on my way for another 500-600 miles ad infinitum. When EV's can perform that trick then maybe I'll be interested. Until then EV's are at best a commuter vehicle or at worse a pretentious toy for those wanting to virtue signal.

As a power expert, this view is pretty spot on and very factual. To address another concern. I had a hybrid for a bit. The issue here is you wind up with the least benefits over ownership. You essentially own an ICE and an EV in one. You also unfortunately get the maintenance that comes with both. Oil changes, spark plugs, and a battery replacement down the road.

Unfortunately, some of us are now facing spending $15K - $20K (installed) for a whole house home generator so we have power during brownouts and blackouts, more EV's putting additional load on the grid are pushing me to pull the trigger. Yes, the ICE engine in the generator is really helping.

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