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tock13

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Of course they also provide something wonderful to the driver called “range anxiety”…
Man, I got a serious case of that now in my Bronco when hitting the backwoods, I can’t imagine the anxiety of driving an EV across eastern Montana and North Dakota.
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Jsullivan

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I understand why you do not want to pay any money to expedite the change over. Everybody seems to look at the short term.

The change is happening like it or not. Does not matter what you think or I think.

The change will benefit all of us. Energy will cost significantly less, energy capture and storage will be more local creating less reliance on the regional network of wiring.... This is a major benefit.

In my opinion (and that is all it is, an opinion) having been studying this industry for decades, is that accelerating the change over does benefit the vast majority of people.

It also allows us to keep some kind of pace with China with could become the worlds most influential country (economically and therefore politically) if we do not stay on top of things... But that is just my opinion.
The problem is China burns Cheap coal to produce the electrical energy to power their EV's.
China has one thing in mind and it isn't protecting the planet.
I'm sure US innovation will come up with green energy solution.
We will have to.
 

5GENIDN

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The problem is China burns Cheap coal to produce the electrical energy to power their EV's.
China has one thing in mind and it isn't protecting the planet.
I'm sure US innovation will come up with green energy solution.
We will have to.
Yes China is burning more coal than anyone else.... But at the same time they are adding more green energy (solar and wind) than anyone else. In fact the forecast for the next five four years (23-28) shows China adding 25% more green energy that the rest of the world combined......

hhhmmmmm..... I would agree it probably has nothing to do with protecting the planet and just about everything to do with the cost of producing the electricity they will be needing.

And the US already has come up with multiple green energy solutions and private money is pouring into those options as we speak. Why? because they are going to make money doing it. NOT because of government subsidies.... This money was allocated before any announced subsidies were even a thought.
 

PrepVet

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The problem is China burns Cheap coal to produce the electrical energy to power their EV's.
China has one thing in mind and it isn't protecting the planet.
I'm sure US innovation will come up with green energy solution.
We will have to.
It will be something that makes more sense like a fuel cell car not a battery car. Physics simply exists and will not be able to make a battery that can be as versatile as a fuel car.
 

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LowerSlowerDelaware

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Man, I got a serious case of that now in my Bronco when hitting the backwoods, I can’t imagine the anxiety of driving an EV across eastern Montana and North Dakota.
No Problem. If you can't bring Mohammed to the Mountain, you bring the Mountain to Mohammed

Ford Bronco Bronco EV reportedly on hold until early next decade (⚠️ ADMIN WARNING: NO POLITICS) full-186932036
Ford Bronco Bronco EV reportedly on hold until early next decade (⚠️ ADMIN WARNING: NO POLITICS) th-208337834
 

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It will be something that makes more sense like a fuel cell car not a battery car. Physics simply exists and will not be able to make a battery that can be as versatile as a fuel car.
A drawback of the fuel cell is the process of generating the hydrogen – which utilizes a lot of energy. An advantage in favor of a battery powered EV is its efficiency rate. When you look at the battery electric vs. fuel cell efficiency numbers, the battery powered EV has around 70-90% efficiency rates compared to the fuel-cells’ 25-35% according to Green Car Reports.
So here is the thing-almost any argument against EVs disappear if you can recharge in 20 minutes or less to 80% for almost anywhere...that is far easier to attain than using hydrogen in most situations.
 

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Until I can recharge an EV in the time I can fill a tank with gas (typically less than five minutes), and drive several hundred miles without stopping in -20 degree temps, said EV has no place in my existence.

(Minnesota winters suck.)
 

Hemisfear

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I actually agree with @Tricky Mike, which is concerning on its own.

I like EV's - However I think a plug-in hybrid is a better approach while the infrastructure and battery technology improve. For an off-road vehicle, a fully EV capable vehicle doesn't make much sense - Albeit, many customers won't go off-roading long enough where having extra range would matter anyways.

Give a plug-in hybrid option, where you can get decent range with the electric option (maybe 100 km or so?), and you might be onto a winner.
Maybe, but I haven't seen a solution for the probable need to double our needed raw materials, which are highly carbon producing, not to mention the child slave labour used in the mining of cobalt, the doubling of electrical power requirements, with legislation limiting the construction of hydro electric projects and solar/wind will not help this situation at all.
I see this "electric fad" as being promoted by governments using climate change as their golden goose for new taxation and no solution what so ever, assuming climate change can be helped at all, which isn't really established either!
 

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PrepVet

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So here is the thing-almost any argument against EVs disappear if you can recharge in 20 minutes or less to 80% for almost anywhere...that is far easier to attain than using hydrogen in most situations.
Except it isn't. Physics exists, you can only push so many electrons through a substraight. The faster you force them the faster that material breaks down. And scaling up solid state batteries can't happen until physics can finally be deleted.
 

dcg2

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Except it isn't. Physics exists, you can only push so many electrons through a substraight. The faster you force them the faster that material breaks down. And scaling up solid state batteries can't happen until physics can finally be deleted.
I think the new JC Whitney catalog has the Physics Delete kit.
 

JONNEE

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Sorry but a 200w panel isn't really going to do much for you. Maybe a fan and keep your 12v topped off.
Yeah, I'd thought about that a few years ago when EVs were starting to make inroads and the Cybertruck was "announced". I even sketched up what was a folding array of panels that could unfurl when parked. My best case design got me about 1600 W at peak sun (basically 5 ~200 W monsters that stacked for stowing).
While certainly enough to top off the battery if one needed to run the ac all night (which would be great in itself) it was a paltry amount of energy over a typical day to give more than a few miles of range.
Solar is awesome, I'm here in PHX and eventually will have the roof covered in panels, further reducing my heat load, and putting in a whole-home UPS so I can really limit my need for the grid. I may then get myself a little EV for puttering about town. May never have to pay for power again.
But for a capable EV, the energy needs are so challenging. I could never imagine
 

Sherminiator

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Except it isn't. Physics exists, you can only push so many electrons through a substraight. The faster you force them the faster that material breaks down. And scaling up solid state batteries can't happen until physics can finally be deleted.
Make of it what you want, but

https://blog.evbox.com/fast-charging-battery

https://thenextweb.com/news/is-fast-charging-bad-ev-battery-degradation

While there is research that shows that frequent fast (DC) charging can somewhat degrade the battery faster than AC charging, the effect on battery heath is very minor. In fact, DC charging only increases battery deterioration by about 0.1 percent on average.
Also keep in mind batteries are overbuilt to a point to account for cell failure over their lifetime.
 

raqball

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I had a 2018 Tesla Model 3 and here is my sad story of despair and why I would most likely never buy an EV again.. Most def not on an off-road vehicle..

I had numerous instances of almost being stranded.. Tesla tested my batteries several times after my many range complaints. They even sent the data to the mothership a few times to appease my complaints. They continually said the battery was fine and the car was preforming as it should.

My final straw, and why I eventually traded it:

I was leaving my sons house after Christmas and driving home. Total distance about 210 miles. My Model 3 was the SR+ which had a 240 mile range.

About the mid point of the trip was a Tesla Supercharger station.. I believe from my sons house to it was something like 110 miles then another 100 miles from it to my home..

Car was charged to 100% before leaving my sons house, weather was freezing cold so I ran the heater and had the radio for music during the drive.. There were high winds and the route also has a mountain pass to contend with...

About 40 miles into the trip, the Model 3 told me to reduce speed to 60mph so I would make it to the charger.. At about 60 miles into the trip (about 50 miles from the Supercharger) it told me to reduce speed to 50mph to make the charger...

So a 240 mile ranged car can only make it 110 miles IF I reduce my speed to turtle levels.. I had little old ladies blowing past me on the freeway and I could swear a few of them flipped me off since I was going so slow...

I had to turn the heater on and off to try and preserve battery. When the cold got unbearable, I'd turn it back on to warm up a little then back off to save battery in the hopes I'd make it. I made it to the supercharger, a whopping 110 miles away, with something 2 percent battery left...

This was not the 1st time this happened to me but it was the final straw and was the main reason I decided to trade it..

During the fiasco described above, I did call Tesla and ask what I'd need to do since I didn't think I was going to make it.. They said if I ran out of juice on the trip to call them and they'd send a tow truck free of charge.. All fine and dandy but since it was freezing cold, no juice left to run heater, I assume I would have had icicles hanging off my nose when it arrived.. Luckily I made it to the charger... Barely...

Now imagine the above except I didn't make it and needed to wait for a tow. Probably an hour wait maybe longer. I was by myself but what if this happened to a family with small children. Freezing on the side of the road with no means to heat the inside of the car could have been very dangerous..

Anyways, that's my sad story of despair and why I would NOT buy another EV only vehicle.

Range anxiety is real and it should be because there are many factors that play into your range and if you'll even make the next charger.

I personally would not purchase another EV only vehicle until they reach at least a 500+ mile claimed range and fast chargers are more readily available. Gas stations are everywhere, fast chargers are not.

City ONLY driving? An EV would be fine but for anything other than that, I'd personally take a hard pass on an EV.

Off roading? Nope, nope, nope, and an absolute nope...... The range anxiety would kill the fun, the weather conditions could kill your battery range, slow crawling will kill your battery range.. Heck everything is going to kill your battery range.. Need to winch out? Good luck with that as you'll probably decrease you range significantly...

My .02

/end sad story of despair..
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