Sponsored

Virtual-Chris

Badlands
Well-Known Member
First Name
Chris
Joined
Feb 17, 2021
Threads
18
Messages
412
Reaction score
860
Location
North Vancouver
Vehicle(s)
Bronco
Your Bronco Model
Badlands
In Baja (and probably all the off-road modes except Rock Crawl) it still applies brakes to control traction, but it allows for more slippage before it kicks in.
I don't think we know that for sure. It's possible, but it's also possible that there's zero traction control applied in Baja mode. It's also possible that pressing the traction control button while in Baja will apply full pavement traction control... or something in-between. We just don't know enough.

I think there's a lot of conjecture out there... even different pro-drivers in videos have made conflicting statements about what is and isn't affected. For example, you've seen a video where the steering changes between modes, and I've seen one where the driver said there is no change in steering behaviour. Who's right?
Sponsored

 

Husker

Wildtrak
Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Threads
4
Messages
311
Reaction score
556
Location
N
Vehicle(s)
F
Your Bronco Model
Wildtrak
Simply switching from one mode to another and seeing what functions light up doesn't give you the complete picture. Switching modes will automatically switch your 4WD mode, like 4H to 2H, and it makes changes to your Hero settings. But we've also seen in videos that it respected Hero settings you have manually adjusted. So for example, if you manually engage a rear locker in one mode and switch to another, the new mode may leave the rear locker engaged even if it wouldn't be switched on by default in the new mode.

We also know that throttle, transmission, steering, and traction control are adjusted by GOAT modes. There is no visual indicator of how each of these is set. So a demonstration of switching modes can show you some how some things adjust between modes, but several of them are not so readily apparent or verified.


We have seen in one video that the steering is adjusted to be looser in Baja mode.
I don't think Baja would be equivalent to a Track mode. It's intended for off-road driving, and Track modes are usually intended for... a track, pavement. In terms of throttle and transmission, probably very similar. In terms of steering, traction control, and torque vectoring (if GOAT modes can affect that last one), they are likely very different.


It's not as simple traction control On or Off. The traction control system applies brakes to individual wheels when it detects a loss of traction. The GOAT modes adjust when/how this braking is applied. In Normal (and most likely all the pavement modes), this braking force is applied when it detects a relatively minimal amount of slippage. In Baja (and probably all the off-road modes except Rock Crawl) it still applies brakes to control traction, but it allows for more slippage before it kicks in.
So no, turning traction control off is not going to provide the same effect as the traction control offered by a different mode.

Once again you make perfect sense. Thanks for taking the time to explain it in a way that’s easily understood.
I can only imagine your frustration when people like me just can’t seem to let it rest.
 
OP
OP
Natai

Natai

Badlands
Well-Known Member
First Name
Sean
Joined
Jul 21, 2020
Threads
29
Messages
1,438
Reaction score
5,284
Location
Sacramento
Vehicle(s)
Nissan Sentra, Mercedes GLC
Your Bronco Model
Badlands
Clubs
 
I don't think we know that for sure. It's possible, but it's also possible that there's zero traction control applied in Baja mode. It's also possible that pressing the traction control button while in Baja will apply full pavement traction control... or something in-between. We just don't know enough.

I think there's a lot of conjecture out there... even different pro-drivers in videos have made conflicting statements about what is and isn't affected. For example, you've seen a video where the steering changes between modes, and I've seen one where the driver said there is no change in steering behaviour. Who's right?
There were statements from Levine about how traction control works differently in different modes, specifically mentioning how it behaves in Baja. And the traction control button doesn't suddenly apply pavement traction control, because it's function is essentially the opposite - pushing the button disables ALL traction control. You cannot manually make adjustments to the type of traction control. You can turn it off or you can leave it on and let the GOAT mode adjust it.

Could you point to the video where the driver says no change in steering? Also quite possible that both were correct at that point in their demonstration. One switches to Baja and specifically explains it loosens the steering since you're going off-road to help minimize the wheel being pulled sharply if you hit a bump. The other switches between modes and explains it doesn't adjust the steering, because the steering settings in those two modes are the same.

We'll probably never know the precise differences unless someone can go into the computer and actually read them all. But in my opinion there is plenty of consistent evidence that Baja and Sport are NOT just 2H/4H versions of one another, no matter how many of us would like them to be. But if you've got a link to a video or other source that refutes that, please share it.
 
OP
OP
Natai

Natai

Badlands
Well-Known Member
First Name
Sean
Joined
Jul 21, 2020
Threads
29
Messages
1,438
Reaction score
5,284
Location
Sacramento
Vehicle(s)
Nissan Sentra, Mercedes GLC
Your Bronco Model
Badlands
Clubs
 
Hmmm. Just re-watched that entire video and didn't hear any reference to steering. Still working on my first cup of coffee though, so I could have missed it.

Edit: It is worth mentioning though that this video has another good example of how the modes alter settings other than just traction control on/off and 4WD. At around 3:30 he specifically talks about how the braking calibration varies between modes so the vehicle brakes differently. Another reason to perhaps not so cavalierly assume that the only difference between off-road and pavement modes is if it's in 2H or 4H.
 

Sponsored

Pancho Kornwallace

Base
Well-Known Member
First Name
Pancho
Joined
Sep 29, 2020
Threads
60
Messages
1,522
Reaction score
4,028
Location
Michigan
Vehicle(s)
Mustang
Your Bronco Model
Base
My Bronco's "hat" will also serve as an additional "goes anywhere" mode.
My set up will go where your Sasquatch cannot: 100 feet of water, not just 10 inches of water.

Canoe Front.png
 

Ryuk

Base
Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2021
Threads
6
Messages
1,422
Reaction score
3,746
Location
PA
Vehicle(s)
2021 Ford Ranger, 2023 Ford F-150
Your Bronco Model
Base
Clubs
 
Hmmm. Just re-watched that entire video and didn't hear any reference to steering. Still working on my first cup of coffee though, so I could have missed it.
It could be a different video. Maybe @Virtual-Chris will link the one he was referring to.
I do remember someone talking about this stuff in one of the videos. Must have been a different one. Now I am curious. LOL
 

Virtual-Chris

Badlands
Well-Known Member
First Name
Chris
Joined
Feb 17, 2021
Threads
18
Messages
412
Reaction score
860
Location
North Vancouver
Vehicle(s)
Bronco
Your Bronco Model
Badlands
@Natai @Ryuk ... It was in this video at around 13:50. He does mention there's an extensive spreadsheet of parameters that change but he doesn't think steering is one of them... (ps. We need that spreadsheet!)

 
OP
OP
Natai

Natai

Badlands
Well-Known Member
First Name
Sean
Joined
Jul 21, 2020
Threads
29
Messages
1,438
Reaction score
5,284
Location
Sacramento
Vehicle(s)
Nissan Sentra, Mercedes GLC
Your Bronco Model
Badlands
Clubs
 
@Natai @Ryuk ... It was in this video at around 13:50. He does mention there's an extensive spreadsheet of parameters that change but he doesn't think steering is one of them... (ps. We need that spreadsheet!)

Thanks. Don't think I've seen that video, so I've got another one to pick apart now.

Sounds like he definitely doesn't notice a difference in steering. He also mentioned packages being included in this spreadsheet he talks about, which makes me think it probably includes different equipment on the sheet - which makes sense since a mode might make use of 4A but needs an alternative if the vehicle doesn't have it. Just thinking if you're looking at a massive spreadsheet it would be easy to miss something, especially if most of what you see is equipment differences all grouped together, but there are other software adjustments on another part of the sheet.

I agree we definitely need a copy of this spreadsheet!!

For reference, here's the first video I found that explicitly states the GOAT modes adjust steering. At around 1:25 he switches from Normal to Baja and talks about it. He also points out that traction control is off because he did so manually, while other videos suggest Baja might disable traction control automatically - and still others say it adjusts traction control but doesn't disable it. This could also be simple confusion on the part of the drivers since the systems involved could be similar. For example, braking calibration could be adjusted to provide improved braking, but since traction control involves braking individual wheels, some are interpreting the different braking calibration as changing traction control.

 

Ryuk

Base
Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2021
Threads
6
Messages
1,422
Reaction score
3,746
Location
PA
Vehicle(s)
2021 Ford Ranger, 2023 Ford F-150
Your Bronco Model
Base
Clubs
 
I remember this second video an him stating that the steering tightens up.
I guess we will just have to wait and see and feel what the steering does when it's put in Baja mode.
 

Sponsored

da_jokker

Wildtrak
Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2020
Threads
124
Messages
6,143
Reaction score
7,012
Location
California
Vehicle(s)
Jeep Wrangler JKUR
Your Bronco Model
Wildtrak
Clubs
 
I was watching a bunch of videos yesterday (searched for 2021 Bronco and filtered to uploaded in the last month) one of the videos was a ride along in moab with Voagh(sp?) And he specifically stated that Baja turns off TC (maybe he was incorrect in that it just backs off a bit) but he also talked about the steering response being adjusted as well.
 

Sighlense

Wildtrak
Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2020
Threads
9
Messages
1,306
Reaction score
2,235
Location
Upstate NY
Vehicle(s)
2015 Mustang GT - 2022 Bronco Wildtrak
Your Bronco Model
Wildtrak
No.
Sigh... That chart is speculation based off the Raptor. Don't use it as a reliable reference.

Sport is intended for pavement. It defaults to 2H, and traction controls are presumably configured similar to Normal - for driving on the street. Some Hero settings might not be available in Sport. 4L is not available in Sport.

Baja defaults to 4H, all 4WD modes are available. Traction control is specifically adjusted to allow for more slippage in sand. It's intended for off-road.
Well, i am hoping they follow the same path with the Bronco being that they already have it mapped out that way on the Raptor. There has to be someone in the know that can answer to this.
 
OP
OP
Natai

Natai

Badlands
Well-Known Member
First Name
Sean
Joined
Jul 21, 2020
Threads
29
Messages
1,438
Reaction score
5,284
Location
Sacramento
Vehicle(s)
Nissan Sentra, Mercedes GLC
Your Bronco Model
Badlands
Clubs
 
I was watching a bunch of videos yesterday (searched for 2021 Bronco and filtered to uploaded in the last month) one of the videos was a ride along in moab with Voagh(sp?) And he specifically stated that Baja turns off TC (maybe he was incorrect in that it just backs off a bit) but he also talked about the steering response being adjusted as well.
I've seen that in a couple as well. Really hard to tell what's happening because that's the one Hero switch that doesn't have an indicator light - it only displays on the driver instrument panel. I have seen a couple of videos where the driver intentionally turns off traction control as well, which would seem to counter the idea that Baja disables it by default, since most of them spend almost all of their time in Baja.

Another video I saw yesterday stated that the GOAT modes adjust something like 100 different settings in the computer. Now I imagine it may take multiple internal adjustments to configure a single feature (e.g. adjusting braking might require 5 different changes to computer settings). But still, that means there are a LOT of things being subtly adjusted that we otherwise don't have manual control over.

It's also becoming increasingly apparent that the ridealong drivers have NOT been given a lot of inside info on these modes and a lot of other features. Plenty of them will flat out tell the passenger they don't know something - saw one video where driver didn't even know about the tire cameras or how to adjust the camera.

And of course, since practically everything at these ridealong events is a Badlands, none of them have gotten to spend much time with Sport mode.
 

Husker

Wildtrak
Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Threads
4
Messages
311
Reaction score
556
Location
N
Vehicle(s)
F
Your Bronco Model
Wildtrak
And of course, since practically everything at these ridealong events is a Badlands, none of them have gotten to spend much time with Sport mode.
((( BINGO )))...Eventually, someone is gonna be able to explain the differences between Baja D&P & Sport D&P with actual Ford Documentation or 1st Hand Knowledge...That day is coming my Internet Friend!!!
 

Merc4x4

Badlands
Well-Known Member
First Name
steve
Joined
Jul 8, 2020
Threads
10
Messages
2,065
Reaction score
3,993
Location
NJ
Vehicle(s)
2021 Bronco
Your Bronco Model
Badlands
Clubs
 
Shelby talks about the steering firming/quickening in her favorite mode, Baja.
She also leaves it in Baja mode when returning to the pavement; just switches to 2H.

The Bronco didn't break, refuse to run, crash, or in any other way act unfavorably once it hit pavement. No uncontrolled tire spinning.
Weird, almost like it can't discern the difference between different road compositions. :rolleyes:

I stand by my supposition that Baja mode vs Sport mode in the Bronco can be thought of as similar to the difference in Track/Race mode vs Sport mode in a sports car. It will wait longer before it turns on the nannies/stability control to avoid an out-of-control situation.

The only tuning issue I can fathom that might be a hidden gotcha on high-traction surfaces like pavement is ABS. I can see how Ford might allow more wheel lock during breaking for an off-pavement 4x4 than you'd expect. Even then I would suspect that would only be at lower speed when going straight.

Drifting a soft suspended, high center of gravity truck on high traction surface can lead to roll-over. I imagine the Bronco Sport mode doesn't allow much, if any, rotation whereas the Baja mode will.

Drive carefully, within your limits, when off track as the people around you aren't expecting a car/truck sliding around a corner nor deserve being crashed into.

And remember, no 4H, 4L, front/rear lockers on high traction surfaces. That will cause binding of the drive line and premature wear / breaking.

...
Ride-Along:

...
see orig thread:
https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/threads/ride-with-shelby-hall-and-more-supercel-east.15883/
Sponsored

 
 


Top