cowman

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Germans are way ahead when it comes to oil level warning systems...if our Broncos had a low (and high) sensor, like a BMW or Mercedez has, I wouldn't stress about a dipstick as much...however, both my Sprinter and my former G series had not only sensors (for those who prefer dash warnings) but also very accurate dipsticks (for those of us who don't trust the fairly inaccurate "ballpark figure" sensors). Point again being that Ford in this particular case is irresponsible for not being able to build a product that has an inaccurate dipstick (or oil capacity indication). How hard can it be to make a car that has a manual/vehicle in which the oil level rec. matches the provided instructions/dipstick? Also...as you pointed out your BMW did not have a dipstick. If our Broncos didn't have a dipstick, this entire topic would be pointless. Because our Broncos do have a dipstick, however, and because they are apparently inaccurate, Ford needs to give us some direction IMHO.
Ford has given direction..... 7 qts....
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Bumping this. I am currently prepping a FE with the 2.7. The oil level is dead nuts at the top of the hashes. This was after the 15 minute drain back. Just seeing if maybe they updated the dipstick. The engineering number on this one is FT4E-6750-BF.
Nope...same number as mine. What is yours several hours after drainback/cold?
 

broncorik

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Ford has given direction..... 7 qts....
Ford has also given another direction..."don't fill beyond the max mark on the dipstick." It is in the owner's manual in PDF, in html, and in our entertainment systems (which could easily be updated over the air if Ford wants to). THAT direction also warns of potential engine damage and to immediately correct the situation. Until Ford actually tells us what the discrepancy is, they have not given direction. Has anyone in this forum heard directly from a Ford engineer?
 

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Ford has also given another direction..."don't fill beyond the max mark on the dipstick." It is in the owner's manual in PDF, in html, and in our entertainment systems (which could easily be updated over the air if Ford wants to). THAT direction also warns of potential engine damage and to immediately correct the situation. Until Ford actually tells us what the discrepancy is, they have not given direction. Has anyone in this forum heard directly from a Ford engineer?
I haven’t even heard directly from a Ford engineer and I’ve requested clarification internally. We’ve been using 7 quarts as the standard for the life of the program though.
 

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Ford has also given another direction..."don't fill beyond the max mark on the dipstick." It is in the owner's manual in PDF, in html, and in our entertainment systems (which could easily be updated over the air if Ford wants to). THAT direction also warns of potential engine damage and to immediately correct the situation. Until Ford actually tells us what the discrepancy is, they have not given direction. Has anyone in this forum heard directly from a Ford engineer?
Ford engineer said 7 qts... flip says..... FSE was here and verified with bronco team engineering, 7.0qt for oil change is correct. My inquiry was the first they had received (through normal Ford channels) and they are investigating. One theory, which appears to be incorrect based on the last post, is they recycled the F150 stick. Beside it being longer, the part numbers are not the same so we can nix that. It's possible there was an engineering change since this 2.7 takes 1qt more than the other vehicles the Nano is used in. Gut tells me engineering spec'd 7qt after the indicator was designed/approved and no one caught it. Anyway, they are "officially" aware of it and looking into it.
flip also said..... My bet is the stick in the bronco is 1/2" too long and engineering just used the F150 length because of similar parts. They didn't take into account the bronco gets an extra quart.
 
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broncorik

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Ford engineer said 7 qts... flip says..... FSE was here and verified with bronco team engineering, 7.0qt for oil change is correct. My inquiry was the first they had received (through normal Ford channels) and they are investigating. One theory, which appears to be incorrect based on the last post, is they recycled the F150 stick. Beside it being longer, the part numbers are not the same so we can nix that. It's possible there was an engineering change since this 2.7 takes 1qt more than the other vehicles the Nano is used in. Gut tells me engineering spec'd 7qt after the indicator was designed/approved and no one caught it. Anyway, they are "officially" aware of it and looking into it.
flip also said..... My bet is the stick in the bronco is 1/2" too long and engineering just used the F150 length because of similar parts. They didn't take into account the bronco gets an extra quart.
Whatever the issue is I hope they sort it out and reflect it in the manual. I know someone posted a 2018 F150 pic of a stick, but I am wondering what the comparison between a 2021 F150 stick and a Bronco stick looks like side by side. The parts person verified that although the valve covers between the F150 and the Bronco are the same, which makes sense, the part numbers are different for the dipsticks. Regardless of pan capacity, I can't imagine why Ford would choose to go with a different check valve/stick if the overall oil level in regard to distance from the block should remain the same between the F150 and the Bronco (unless Ford moved the crankshaft and rotating assembly in general in the Bronco engine up 1/2", which we all know is not likely 😊. Whatever the issue is, not sure why Ford is allowing a manual that contradicts itself to remain unchanged (and an essentially useless dipstick to be put into our vehicles). If Ford's idea of a "more capable" off road pan is simply claiming it holds another quart, that too makes no sense...in the diagrams the pan shows zero baffles or a windage tray. Hopefully the oil pick up allows for oil to be reached during extreme angles, but with no baffles it appears that it would not be too tough to starve the pump with steep nose-down situations (due to the shape of the pan...a simple baffle or better yet a windage tray would have easily addressed that). My guess is that some engineer thought that it would be cheaper to have a pan hold another quart (resulting in a slightly higher level to address potential starvation of the pump) than to spend another dollar per pan for even a crude windage tray. Whatever the case may be, is it too much to ask for an accurate stick? Or is the Ford "fix" going to be to have customers scribe a new max line on their dipsticks after confirming a 7 quart fill??
 

D2dhanover

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Whatever the issue is I hope they sort it out and reflect it in the manual. I know someone posted a 2018 F150 pic of a stick, but I am wondering what the comparison between a 2021 F150 stick and a Bronco stick looks like side by side. The parts person verified that although the valve covers between the F150 and the Bronco are the same, which makes sense, the part numbers are different for the dipsticks. Regardless of pan capacity, I can't imagine why Ford would choose to go with a different check valve/stick if the overall oil level in regard to distance from the block should remain the same between the F150 and the Bronco (unless Ford moved the crankshaft and rotating assembly in general in the Bronco engine up 1/2", which we all know is not likely 😊. Whatever the issue is, not sure why Ford is allowing a manual that contradicts itself to remain unchanged (and an essentially useless dipstick to be put into our vehicles). If Ford's idea of a "more capable" off road pan is simply claiming it holds another quart, that too makes no sense...in the diagrams the pan shows zero baffles or a windage tray. Hopefully the oil pick up allows for oil to be reached during extreme angles, but with no baffles it appears that it would not be too tough to starve the pump with steep nose-down situations (due to the shape of the pan...a simple baffle or better yet a windage tray would have easily addressed that). My guess is that some engineer thought that it would be cheaper to have a pan hold another quart (resulting in a slightly higher level to address potential starvation of the pump) than to spend another dollar per pan for even a crude windage tray. Whatever the case may be, is it too much to ask for an accurate stick? Or is the Ford "fix" going to be to have customers scribe a new max line on their dipsticks after confirming a 7 quart fill??
One theory just from being an engineer at Ford doing powertrain development, the F-150 Nano engine and Explorer Nano engine are essentially the same. Both take 6 quarts, however the F-150 pan is significantly deeper. I believe the F-150 dip stick is longer for this reason (I didn’t double check). The Bronco adding an extra quart to capacity (our spec for the entire program) was because there was more room in the pan for the oil and to prevent cavitation in severe angle situations.
 

broncorik

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One theory just from being an engineer at Ford doing powertrain development, the F-150 Nano engine and Explorer Nano engine are essentially the same. Both take 6 quarts, however the F-150 pan is significantly deeper. I believe the F-150 dip stick is longer for this reason (I didn’t double check). The Bronco adding an extra quart to capacity (our spec for the entire program) was because there was more room in the pan for the oil and to prevent cavitation in severe angle situations.
Thanks for the info. In your opinion shouldn't the dipstick accurately reflect the proper oil level regardless of oil pan depth and capacity? I think at the end of the day all the owners are seeking is being able to know that if our dipsticks indicate "full" that our engines are in fact at the correct level?
 

D2dhanover

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Thanks for the info. In your opinion shouldn't the dipstick accurately reflect the proper oil level regardless of oil pan depth and capacity? I think at the end of the day all the owners are seeking is being able to know that if our dipsticks indicate "full" that our engines are in fact at the correct level?
Well yes they should. And I haven’t ever seen or been notified this was an issue until this forum. Both my Broncos accurately take 7 quarts and match the dipstick markings. All test engines I’ve witnessed did the same. I have still been unable to get further clarification on this but I myself am interested.

I have always for the last 36 years of driving judged my oil level by the dipstick marking. The spec can say what it says but sometimes you just don’t get it all out so I float it to the full mark and call it good.
 

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Well yes they should. And I haven’t ever seen or been notified this was an issue until this forum. Both my Broncos accurately take 7 quarts and match the dipstick markings. All test engines I’ve witnessed did the same. I have still been unable to get further clarification on this but I myself am interested.

I have always for the last 36 years of driving judged my oil level by the dipstick marking. The spec can say what it says but sometimes you just don’t get it all out so I float it to the full mark and call it good.
What is the engineering number on your stick?
 

broncorik

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Well yes they should. And I haven’t ever seen or been notified this was an issue until this forum. Both my Broncos accurately take 7 quarts and match the dipstick markings. All test engines I’ve witnessed did the same. I have still been unable to get further clarification on this but I myself am interested.

I have always for the last 36 years of driving judged my oil level by the dipstick marking. The spec can say what it says but sometimes you just don’t get it all out so I float it to the full mark and call it good.
I assume both your Broncos have had oil changes because you shared that they take 7 quarts, correct? Otherwise you would not have known if they took 7 quarts is my guess...unless you are assuming the factory filled them to 7. If the former is the case, and if our sticks are the same part number, something is clearly amiss because I and many other members have found that not only were our Broncos way over on the stick from the factory (even after PDI) but also that after we drain nearly 7 quarts out that if we put in only 6 back it puts the oil at the full mark and if we add 7 that it puts the oil right back in the middle of the twist. So, to clarify, you have personally changed your oil on one or both of your Broncos, dumped 7 out and added 7 in, and after letting it sit for at least 15 minutes after a restart and shutdown (preferably longer to be sure all the oil has made its way back to the pan), that you are sitting right at the full marks? Sorry to repeat questions that have already been asked in other responses but I am hoping to gain at least some clarification/clues as to why so many of us have wonky readings.
 

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I assume both your Broncos have had oil changes because you shared that they take 7 quarts, correct? Otherwise you would not have known if they took 7 quarts is my guess...unless you are assuming the factory filled them to 7. If the former is the case, and if our sticks are the same part number, something is clearly amiss because I and many other members have found that not only were our Broncos way over on the stick from the factory (even after PDI) but also that after we drain nearly 7 quarts out that if we put in only 6 back it puts the oil at the full mark and if we add 7 that it puts the oil right back in the middle of the twist. So, to clarify, you have personally changed your oil on one or both of your Broncos, dumped 7 out and added 7 in, and after letting it sit for at least 15 minutes after a restart and shutdown (preferably longer to be sure all the oil has made its way back to the pan), that you are sitting right at the full marks? Sorry to repeat questions that have already been asked in other responses but I am hoping to gain at least some clarification/clues as to why so many of us have wonky readings.
I have changed both myself. I did the first changes at about 1,500 for both. I received nearly 7.5 quarts out of them for the first time, rough measured by the jugs as I didn’t have any reason to be concerned originally for a detailed measurement so this could be a high estimate. I put in 6 quarts and top off up to the max of spec based on what is received. It wasn’t even on the stick after the normal procedures. I then put in the last quart and it was right at the top of the hashes as expected. This was months ago before there was any concerns.
 

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This is a Lima issue, not a MAP issue correct? Engine comes in complete and just gets dropped on the chassis?
 

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Why are dipsticks gray metal? I always have a tough time reading them. Why can’t they be white or some other light color so I can see the f’ing oil level without my reading glasses???
 
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