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Bronco traction control off-road ability?

tokyo

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I posted this in another thread but thought maybe it deserved its own.

With the only locker option on the base being $5,790 Squatch package the point was made that brake actuated traction control acts as a "poor man's locker" and the diffs aren't completely "open".

Depending on usage may be enough for many people?

I found this Japanese video showing the concept very well on the new not-coming-to-the US market Suzuki Jimny.

The concept is shown on moguls at the 18:00 minute mark

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Eggsalad

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The question does deserve a thread because it comes up so often in other threads. ABS-based computer-controlled traction control on open front and rear differentials is a proven system on many offroad trucks. 95% of offroading lockers are not necessary with modern ABS traction control.

Toyota 4Runners and Tacomas are known for offroad prowess, they have a rear locker available but mainly rely on ABS to brake the spinning wheel front and rear to maintain momentum offroad.

@Rocketeer Rick and others have pointed out LSD diffs front and/or rear would be nice to have rather than lockers.
 

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My 2017 Toyota Tacoma base model worked great with just conventional traction control that wasn't even their "A-Trac" or "Crawl Control". It was simply an electric LSD that worked front and rear by modulating the ABS system. I never once got that truck stuck, even with 2 wheels off the ground, teetering, I was able to maintain forward momentum.
In deep mud up to the rockers, it still came out under its own power. This truck had a 4 cylinder, 5 speed, 4x4, and was totally stock other than some 265/70/17 BFG All-Terrain tires.
I think a base model Bronco will be just as good. I'm still hoping to get the Sasquatch package for the lockers, but if I can't do it, hopefully the traction control stuff will get me there. I'd love to at least be able to stick a lunchbox locker in the rearend, but someone said the ring gear will be welded to the carrier, so maybe that's not even possible....
 

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It may be decent without but there is no real substitute for lockers. You won't miss them until you really need them.

If you are talking mild trails no big deal, probably don't even need a bronco to be honest. When you are hundreds of miles from home with snow coming down, poor cell service, gas running low and daylight wanting, let me tell you the peace of mind of having lockers is invaluable even if you don't end up needing them. It just really depends how hard you plan to take things off-road or in the back country.
 

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This is an interesting topic. If differential braking is possible on the Bronco then it makes lockers unnecessary for all but the hard core wheelers out there.
 

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Around the 30 second mark in this video, you can see the Wrangler JL front driver side wheel lift off the ground, and the brakes engage to transfer power to the passenger side wheel having the traction.

 
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Yeah I was trying to climb a fairly long steep loose dusty/rocky hill in my F150 4x2 and the truck stopped halfway up even with the rear locked. Nothing as frustrating as pushing the throttle with no response. I scratched my head for a minute and realized I left T/C on.

I backed down and tried it again with T/C off and bounced and jounced and spit rocks all the way up and over the top. But again that is with T/C off which would get rid of the brake actuated "locker" feature.

My guess is the G.O.A.T. modes on the Bronco will address this?
 

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It may be decent without but there is no real substitute for lockers. You won't miss them until you really need them.

If you are talking mild trails no big deal, probably don't even need a bronco to be honest. When you are hundreds of miles from home with snow coming down, poor cell service, gas running low and daylight wanting, let me tell you the peace of mind of having lockers is invaluable even if you don't end up needing them. It just really depends how hard you plan to take things off-road or in the back country.
That's the question - how often do you REALLY need lockers? Answer is 95% of the time offroad you do not need a locker if you have computer controlled ABS LSD.

The big deal offroading is tires, ground clearance, approach/departure/breakover angles, and articulation.

Sure, it's nice to have the peace of mind provided by lockers if you find yourself in a ditch in the middle of nowhere with your ABS sensor wires torn off sliding into said ditch, but ABS-based LSD is very effective for 95% of offroad situations IMO.
Yeah I was trying to climb a fairly long steep loose dusty/rocky hill in my F150 4x2 and the truck stopped halfway up even with the rear locked. Nothing as frustrating as pushing the throttle with no response. I scratched my head for a minute and realized I left T/C on.

I backed down and tried it again with T/C off and bounced and jounced and spit rocks all the way up and over the top. But again that is with T/C off which would get rid of the brake actuated "locker" feature.

My guess is the G.O.A.T. modes on the Bronco will address this?
Actually, with Traction Control off what happened is the the TC "feature" (which is generally hated, hated, HATED) that limits throttle response was disabled.

Yes, GOAT modes modulate throttle response. I'm pretty sure the Bronco will have a VSC OFF button that you can press to completely disable traction controls.
 
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tokyo

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That's the question - how often do you REALLY need lockers? Answer is 95% of the time offroad you do not need a locker if you have computer controlled ABS LSD.

Actually, with Traction Control off what happened is the the TC "feature" (which is generally hated, hated, HATED) that limits throttle response was disabled.

Yes, GOAT modes modulate throttle response. I'm pretty sure the Bronco will have a VSC OFF button that you can press to completely disable traction controls.
Ah, so maybe I was understanding it wrong.

It isn't T/C that helps by applying brake but ABS? So with T/C off you will still have the computer controlled ABS LSD?

Sweet!

Love the info, learning a lot.

So this thread should actually be titled "Off road ability of computer controlled ABS LSD"
 
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tokyo

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It may be decent without but there is no real substitute for lockers. You won't miss them until you really need them.

If you are talking mild trails no big deal, probably don't even need a bronco to be honest. When you are hundreds of miles from home with snow coming down, poor cell service, gas running low and daylight wanting, let me tell you the peace of mind of having lockers is invaluable even if you don't end up needing them. It just really depends how hard you plan to take things off-road or in the back country.
This is the point. The question isn't whether lockers are more capable, hard to argue they aren't, but whether the ABS LSD it good enough for a person's intended usage.

For example lets say that open diffs are 20% capable and lockers are 100% capable. (completely random numbers used for illustration purposes only)

Is ABS LSD 30% capable, barely better than open? or 80% capable, much more capable than open but still not to locker level?
 

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This is an interesting topic. If differential braking is possible on the Bronco then it makes lockers unnecessary for all but the hard core wheelers out there.
It is a good topic since it's been brought up in many other threads. I'm a Toyota guy and the same questions arise on Toyota forums. Basically, if you understand how to use the ABS-based traction control, understand when to use the VSC OFF switch, understand the lamentable throttle cutoff feature incorporated into modern traction control can be disabled, you'll be fine in most offroad situations.

It's that ridiculous throttle cutout thing that pisses people off the most. For example, my 2007 4Runner 4WD did not have a VSC OFF switch. So you try to get all four wheels spinning to power through deep snow, mud, the engine power is cut off in 4HI.

Ridiculous, had to go to 4LO to disable that ridiculous nanny. 2008 4Runner Toyota wised up and put a VSC OFF button in that disables Traction Control in two stages - quick push disables that ridiculous engine power cutout, longer push disables the ABS-based brake traction control.

Bronco I think will have that VSC OFF button for driver control, plus GOAT modes that vary throttle response and ABS LSD.
 

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Ah, so maybe I was understanding it wrong.

It isn't T/C that helps by applying brake but ABS? So with T/C off you will still have the computer controlled ABS LSD?

Sweet!

Love the info, learning a lot.

So this thread should actually be titled "Off road ability of computer controlled ABS LSD"
Electronic Traction Control is twofold in modern systems. ABS is activated when wheel slippage is detected, the slipping wheel will get brake applied so there is engine power delivered to both wheels. The second part of traction control (which pisses people off) is when wheel slippage is detected the computer decides to just completely cut engine power so no drive wheel gets power, you pretty much just die where you are.

No doubt Bronco owners will have to educate themselves about how the system works, when to use this switch, that switch. Toyota 4WD owners continually ask the same questions. There's something like eleven different drive modes with 4WD Tacomas, requires some experimenting and experience to understand how it works and I imagine it will be the same with a Bronco.

The beauty is you HAVE that versatility. You can cut all traction control, you can select GOAT modes. Lockers add even more versatility to provide instant power to drive wheels instead of the delay that ABS LSD has.
 

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This is the point. The question isn't whether lockers are more capable, hard to argue they aren't, but whether the ABS LSD it good enough for a person's intended usage.

For example lets say that open diffs are 20% capable and lockers are 100% capable. (completely random numbers used for illustration purposes only)

Is ABS LSD 30% capable, barely better than open? or 80% capable, much more capable than open but still not to locker level?
IMO, ABS LSD a good comparison is 90% capability compared to lockers. One caveat emptor as pointed out in other threads is with IFS front differential the weak point is the CV axles.

With a front locker the CV axles shear, common occurrence. Having only the rear locker engaged you'll do better than LSD.
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