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California bans sale of gas engines by 2035 [*** ADMIN WARNING: NO POLITICS. TECHNICAL DISCUSSION ONLY ***]

XmasLightsBronco

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Not intended to be a political post, but I'm curious to see what the ramifications of doing this will be on off-road vehicles like the Bronco. If gas stations start fading away by 2045, it might become harder to wheel unless the industry creates electric alternatives. I don't have much faith in that though as the technology doesn't seem promising. A few miles into a trail and the battery is already spent.

What about gas RVs and trucks that need to tow? Sorry, but towing with an EV will suck when you're pulling over to charge every 100 miles.

Again, not intended to be a political debate. Just curious how everyone sees this playing out so that we can preserve the ability of getting off pavement and exploring nature without constantly stopping to charge.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/24/climate/california-gas-cars-emissions.html
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j_marinelli

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Biggest concern I see with it is they need to make larger strides (IMO) in the EV Charging infrastructure first before they start eliminating gas engines.
 

Razorbak86

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Biggest concern I see with it is they need to make larger strides (IMO) in the EV Charging infrastructure first before they start eliminating gas engines.
Understood, and that is a real issue, but don't underestimate how quickly technology can spread in a capitalist economic system.

For example, when was the last time you rented a physical video from a video rental store? Blockbuster filed for bankruptcy just 12 years ago (2010).

2035 is 13 years from now, and the law doesn't outlaw use of existing ICE vehicles in 2035. It just prevents the sale of new ICE vehicles at that time.
 
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XmasLightsBronco

XmasLightsBronco

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2035 is 13 years from now, and the law doesn't outlaw use of existing ICE vehicles in 2035. It just prevents the sale of new ICE vehicles at that time.
I hope you are correct and that the solid state battery tech takes off and we can still wheel off road. I just don't have much faith it'll happen. I think EVs make sense for mall crawlers and commutes to work. Just don't think they will work for people who want to go off pavement for hours up steep inclines.

Although it doesn't ban the usage of ICE vehicles, it may become increasingly expensive and problematic to own them when gas stations start to dry up. Avg age of a vehicle before it flatlines and is crushed is around 10-14 years. With thresholds of 35% by 2026, 51% by 2028, 68% by 2030, and 100% by 2035, I can see gas stations closing up or folding altogether by 2045.

The only glimmer of hope is that the new rules allow for PHEVs with 50 mile range to be classified as zero-emission despite that fact that they have emissions. All offroad vehicles will be like the Wrangler 4xe.
 

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okbob

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They may ban the sell of new gas/diesel vehicles, but it's going to be the tax your existing gas/diesel engine vehicles that will kick everyone in the crotch. I've never been to CA, and never will.
 
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XmasLightsBronco

XmasLightsBronco

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They may ban the sell of new gas/diesel vehicles, but it's going to be the tax your existing gas/diesel engine vehicles that will kick everyone in the crotch. I've never been to CA, and never will.
My first thoughts were, I'll just go buy out of state, but as you said, I'll probably get taxed into oblivion that way. Nevertheless, unfortunately California is the tail that wags the dog when it comes these regulations. 1/3 of the states will immediately follow suit causing OEMs to cater to those larger markets. End result will be when I'm buying vehicles in my 60's, they'll largely be unexciting, expensive, and castrated.
 

Razorbak86

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Towing will suck in 20 years I think, can’t go very far before recharging, long waits to charge = very long trip times.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mo...150-lightning-electric-truck-towing-test/amp/
That prediction is based on your own personal assumption about the efficiency of battery technology 20 years from now.

For comparison, I bought some Makita cordless tools in 2003 (19 years ago). Their 18V battery pack, which was cutting edge at the time, is Nickle Metal Hydride (Ni-MH) technology, and the output is 2.6 Ah.

I just bought some Milwaukee cordless tools this year. Their 18V battery pack is Lithium-Ion (Li-ion) technology (a much better technology than Ni-MH), and the output is 5.0 Ah, in a smaller form factor.

This is a real world example of the improvement in battery technology in 20 years time.

Ford Bronco California bans sale of gas engines by 2035 [*** ADMIN WARNING: NO POLITICS. TECHNICAL DISCUSSION ONLY ***] 0E98569A-508C-4811-96AC-124CC8C9280B
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AZ_BRONC

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California is a state that won’t invest in efficient energy production (oil, natural gas, coal or nuclear), is already having yearly brown-outs and black-outs, buys energy from Arizona next door in an attempt to keep the lights on, and now expects to load the grid with a charging vehicle or two in every garage and business in the state. After my engineering degree I went for my Masters on a scholarship based on my work and interest in solar and environmental design. I just cant get the numbers to work. Not even close.

It won’t happen, but politicians will cause a lot of damage trying.

As far as what it will do to 4-wheeling, camping, towing…pretty much everything vehicle related outside urban areas...I sat in on a meeting with a certain massive company group of employees back in 2018 where they were outlining a vision of consumer vehicle use that didn’t leave much room for private vehicle ownership. They were literally talking about the private vehicle as being akin to the private horse. People would still be “allowed” to own them, but they would be restricted on where they could drive them. I mentioned I liked to 4x4, and they assured me there would certainly be little areas that would allow people to do their hobby, just like there are horse trails now. But the bulk of vehicle ownership in their view would be massive companies like theirs with autonomous vehicles leased as needed through apps on our cell phones. In other words, they don’t want private vehicles on the roads or in our homes, and they spend a lot on lobbyists to make sure the politicians pave the way for their business plans.
 

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GToddC5

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Ford Bronco California bans sale of gas engines by 2035 [*** ADMIN WARNING: NO POLITICS. TECHNICAL DISCUSSION ONLY ***] 1661535382937
 
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XmasLightsBronco

XmasLightsBronco

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California is a state that won’t invest in efficient energy production (oil, natural gas, coal or nuclear), is already having yearly brown-outs and black-outs, buys energy from Arizona next door in an attempt to keep the lights on, and now expects to load the grid with a charging vehicle or two in every garage and business in the state. After my engineering degree I went for my Masters on a scholarship based on my work and interest in solar and environmental design. I just cant get the numbers to work. Not even close.

It won’t happen, but politicians will cause a lot of damage trying.

As far as what it will do to 4-wheeling, camping, towing…pretty much everything vehicle related outside urban areas...I sat in on a meeting with a certain massive company group of employees back in 2018 where they were outlining a vision of consumer vehicle use that didn’t leave much room for private vehicle ownership. They were literally talking about the private vehicle as being akin to the private horse. People would still be “allowed” to own them, but they would be restricted on where they could drive them. I mentioned I liked to 4x4, and they assured me there would certainly be little areas that would allow people to do their hobby, just like there are horse trails now. But the bulk of vehicle ownership in their view would be massive companies like theirs with autonomous vehicles leased as needed through apps on our cell phones. In other words, they don’t want private vehicles on the roads or in our homes, and they spend a lot on lobbyists to make sure the politicians pave the way for their business plans.
This makes me sick. I work for a large OEM and we have electric vehicles as well as some exciting new offerings coming out soon, but that shouldn't get in the way of people wanting to keep their hobby. Gross.
 

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No Virginia, the earth isn't flat.

I will probably never own a EV but they are coming pretty fast.

The first electric cars went from 1894 to 1920 when the price difference to ice killed them. and that was back then electricity in rural areas was a rare thing and gas stations didn't either.

Washington and Massachusetts have already announced they will be following California with the 2035 ban.

If there is money to be made EV issues will be ironed out. More chargers of different types, faster charging, more range, different battery types etc is all coming.

The EV charger that drops from the sky

Any where there is a parking lot and a utility pole can be a charging station for about $9K.
 

Jdc

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I think people always get too concerned about this stuff. There's a lot of great battery improvements that should be leaving the lab soon. Solid state batteries being one of the big improvements. Ultimately one of two things will happen in 2035, 1. all of the tech is ready for the new world of EVs, 2. It's not ready and California's ban is delayed to 2040 or 2045
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