Can we run 85 ethanol in the Bronco?

[bytheway]

1. Your fuel system rubber and plastic parts are not designed or approved for that much alcohol. And the fuel.pumps. I would suspect that if ypu ever require engine warranty it will be flatly denied simply due to your vehicle not approved by Ford for what you feed it. If it required full synthetic oil and you ran non detergent Dino oil as an example.

Look up e85 tunes on the f150 forums. 2.7L can handle it stock. Dual injection gives enough fuel for it. RIP warranty obviously but it can be done.

Edit: brew city boost’s website:

https://www.brewcityboost.com/bcb-2-7l-ecoboost-dyno-results/

For those that don’t know the big differentiator between Gen1 (2015-2017) and Gen2 (2018-2020) is the addition of Port Injection (PI) on the Gen2 engines. The Gen1 design only utilized Direct Injection (DI) and with the addition of PI to the Gen2 the fueling system capacity allows us to run full E85 without any fuel system mods, just a tune calibrated for the fuel. What this means for the Gen1 engines is we are limited in Ethanol content, E30 is about as far as you can go without any fuel system mods and E50 is capable with a simple boost a pump or intank fuel pump upgrade like a DW400.

2018-2020 2.7L Ecoboost (Gen2)

Stock Tune : 383 TQ / 306 HP

BCB E85 Custom : 522 TQ / 431 HP

Gains over Stock : +139 TQ / +125 HP

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[hajj.david]

1. Your fuel system rubber and plastic parts are not designed or approved for that much alcohol. And the fuel.pumps. I would suspect that if ypu ever require engine warranty it will be flatly denied simply due to your vehicle not approved by Ford for what you feed it. If it required full synthetic oil and you ran non detergent Dino oil as an example.

This isn’t the 1990s every part is designed to handle ethanol now. Fuel pumps may not pump enough in theory but in practice I found no reduction in performance or power indicative of the engine being starved of fuel.

Ford uses this same engine and fuel system in Brazil which almost entirely runs on high levels of ethanol. I suspect just a proper tune would resolve it.

To prove my point I will actually take my bronco to the dealer next week to reset the fuel code and see if they could even tell.

 

[hajj.david]

Look up e85 tunes on the f150 forums. 2.7L can handle it stock. Dual injection gives enough fuel for it. RIP warranty obviously but it can be done.

Edit: brew city boost’s website:

https://www.brewcityboost.com/bcb-2-7l-ecoboost-dyno-results/

For those that don’t know the big differentiator between Gen1 (2015-2017) and Gen2 (2018-2020) is the addition of Port Injection (PI) on the Gen2 engines. The Gen1 design only utilized Direct Injection (DI) and with the addition of PI to the Gen2 the fueling system capacity allows us to run full E85 without any fuel system mods, just a tune calibrated for the fuel. What this means for the Gen1 engines is we are limited in Ethanol content, E30 is about as far as you can go without any fuel system mods and E50 is capable with a simple boost a pump or intank fuel pump upgrade like a DW400.

2018-2020 2.7L Ecoboost (Gen2)

Stock Tune : 383 TQ / 306 HP

BCB E85 Custom : 522 TQ / 431 HP

Gains over Stock : +139 TQ / +125 HP

Fords specifications and tolerances allow for E85 type loads with the 2.3L mfg fuel system. I suspect a proper tune would further boost performance and mpg

 

[TMP]

Go for it…….but you might want to get a new short block on order because you will need to replace the engine.

 

[mikeeshim]

Are the nozzle sizes different for E85? Not that it matters since I've seen people forcing diesel into their gasoline cars... 1 in person and many on the internet.

 

[zyglyrox]

I personally ran E85 in my 2021 bronco for months and countless tanks. Maybe I should make a thread about my adventure.

1. The bronco ran better then ever. The engines timing or whatever was definitely improved to take advantage of the E85 (maybe not fully but still). I barely had to use the clutch to get moving. It really felt like I got a major HP and Torque boost vs 87.

2. The engine will throw a fuel code telling you its adaptive learning reached the maximum potential. This is actually a very useful error because it also disables engine start/stop automatically for you. I just continued to ignore it as it was running great.

3. You will see a SLIGHT decrease in MPG. I was getting around 17 before, with E85 I was consistently getting 16. Many people will start typing "ETHANOL HAS 30% LESS ENERGY THUS YOU WILL GET 30% LESS MPG" wrong. Ethanol due to its much higher octane (105-115) can handle much more compression, and if an engine can utilize the ethanol properly it will increase compression and squeeze much higher levels of efficiency out of it. It cannot do so with gas because of preignition.

Thats why if you tow with a flex fuel vehicle, you will notice that you will get the same mpg as gas or sometimes even better. Turbos love E85 and help increase the efficiency of it.

4. It cranks more for cold starts. E85 is rougher in the cold, let your car warm up a bit longer before driving off.

5. It keeps the engine cooler, longer.

6. Keeps the tail pipe spotless

7. Smells delicious.

When gas was $6 a gallon I could get E85 for $2.69. I will 100% use E85 again if gas goes high, but for now (prices dropped substantially) I switched to 93 since 87 feels lethargic to me and in my area (I moved) ethanol is the same price as gas or more.

I’m amazed you didn’t get a CEL due to the engine freaking out about fuel demands. I’d be worried long term about the fuel pump since you’re asking for 30% more load across the board. Ecoboost engines LOVE E30-50 blends but I didn’t know people did straight E-85 because of the ceiling of the DI pump & injectors.

 

[Gnomad]

Go for it…….but you might want to get a new short block on order because you will need to replace the engine.

E85 isn't going to destroy your short block. Alcohol burns cooler, not hotter. Higher octane so less detonation.
The problem is fuel delivery. The stochiometeric ratio for regular gas is 14.7 , the ratio for E85 is 9.7. You need to flow about 1.5 times the fuel to keep up the ratio for E85 and unless you are calibrated for it or the system will learn and support it, your engine will run lean or not at all. If you read the whole thread you can see that one guy has tried it, it worked for him, and tunes exist in F150 that allow the use of E85 and at a performance advantage. Don't expect your running costs to be lower on E85 if you are using more of it to keep up with gas energy wise.
FWIW, I installed an FITech aftermarket EFI system on my 79 Squarebody. I asked the tech at FITech about E85 and it will support the use of the fuel, but the system has a full manual control that lets me select the ethanol content of the fuel and will adjust itself as need be. Stock Bronco doesnt have that, but the tuners can figure that out.
I'm not going to use it because it doesn't make sense to me. Not because it might destroy the engine, but because it isn't going to save any money in the end and it's not really the proper fuel. Might be fun with a set of high flow injectors and a proper tune though.

 

[Gnomad]

I personally ran E85 in my 2021 bronco for months and countless tanks. Maybe I should make a thread about my adventure.

1. The bronco ran better then ever. The engines timing or whatever was definitely improved to take advantage of the E85 (maybe not fully but still). I barely had to use the clutch to get moving. It really felt like I got a major HP and Torque boost vs 87.

2. The engine will throw a fuel code telling you its adaptive learning reached the maximum potential. This is actually a very useful error because it also disables engine start/stop automatically for you. I just continued to ignore it as it was running great.

3. You will see a SLIGHT decrease in MPG. I was getting around 17 before, with E85 I was consistently getting 16. Many people will start typing "ETHANOL HAS 30% LESS ENERGY THUS YOU WILL GET 30% LESS MPG" wrong. Ethanol due to its much higher octane (105-115) can handle much more compression, and if an engine can utilize the ethanol properly it will increase compression and squeeze much higher levels of efficiency out of it. It cannot do so with gas because of preignition.

Thats why if you tow with a flex fuel vehicle, you will notice that you will get the same mpg as gas or sometimes even better. Turbos love E85 and help increase the efficiency of it.

4. It cranks more for cold starts. E85 is rougher in the cold, let your car warm up a bit longer before driving off.

5. It keeps the engine cooler, longer.

6. Keeps the tail pipe spotless

7. Smells delicious.

When gas was $6 a gallon I could get E85 for $2.69. I will 100% use E85 again if gas goes high, but for now (prices dropped substantially) I switched to 93 since 87 feels lethargic to me and in my area (I moved) ethanol is the same price as gas or more.

It would have been interesting to see what the difference in boost and tinimg was between gas and E85. There has to be some limits somewhere?

 

[JT58Bronc]

E85 is a great option on the Flex Fuel vehicles- which I wish they still offered today. Stations that carry E85 are few and far between. And yes as already stated you need to have a flex fuel vehicle or a special tune to run E85.

We have an E85 station about a mile from the house. My wife drives a 2013 Silverado regular cab short bed pick up with a 4.8 V8 and it is flex fuel. Only mod is an MBRP CAT back dual exhaust. She runs it only on E85. The truck is light weight, rare that it has a V8 as most have the V6 and it flies. It is nimble and very fun to drive. And yes the exhaust smell is sweet as well compared to gas. It feels maybe quicker than my 2.7 2 door Basesquatch- especially off the line. I would love it if the Bronco was flex fuel.

 

[mpeugeot]

It would have been interesting to see what the difference in boost and tinimg was between gas and E85. There has to be some limits somewhere?

Agreed, I hope to data log something like this later.

A friend, ran 30% E85 and 70% 93 Octane without any problems in his 2.7 two door Bronco. The mileage dropped to about 16.5 MPG highway, but it ran like a scalded cat.

On the highway, a Mustang (which I assume was an Ecoboost Mustang) tried to race the Bronco 3x from 80-100 mph and couldn't out run the Bronco, it lost (albeit barely) to the Bronco every time. It was hilarious.

That would suggest that (based on factory ratings) that the E85 blend without any other changes from stock, was worth about 50 HP (385 crank HP) in order to match the Mustang in HP to weight.

No engine codes, no drama, stock maps, no engine mods - fuel trim was about +8% long term trim and +4% short term trim according to my friend. A/F Ratios were fine.

 

[mpeugeot]

Are the nozzle sizes different for E85? Not that it matters since I've seen people forcing diesel into their gasoline cars... 1 in person and many on the internet.

E85 nozzle fits just fine.

 

[22OBX]

A couple things, as stated your mpg will be dramatically reduced and I find it difficult to believe without seeing actual dyno results it increases hp without tuning. Flex fuel compatible vehicles have ethanol content sensors in the fuel system which commands different fuel maps, timing maps and probably boost to take advantage of the cooler running high octane e85. Fuel alone there should be no benefit without tuning to take advantage of it. With tuning, yes you can make a lot more hp but fuel mileage will still be terrible.

Simply switching to E85 flex fuel won’t instantly increase your engine’s horsepower. Your engine needs:

To be compatible with E85 fuel
To be tuned to improve timing and power

 

[DrewBronc21]

you can run Ecoboosts on E85 but need a fuel pump, bigger injectors and to be tuned for it. The power gains over stock will be impressive.

 

[HotdogThud]

Agreed, I hope to data log something like this later.

A friend, ran 30% E85 and 70% 93 Octane without any problems in his 2.7 two door Bronco. The mileage dropped to about 16.5 MPG highway, but it ran like a scalded cat.

On the highway, a Mustang (which I assume was an Ecoboost Mustang) tried to race the Bronco 3x from 80-100 mph and couldn't out run the Bronco, it lost (albeit barely) to the Bronco every time. It was hilarious.

That would suggest that (based on factory ratings) that the E85 blend without any other changes from stock, was worth about 50 HP (385 crank HP) in order to match the Mustang in HP to weight.

No engine codes, no drama, stock maps, no engine mods - fuel trim was about +8% long term trim and +4% short term trim according to my friend. A/F Ratios were fine.

Everybody knows that mustangs only go fast when there's a crowd of people in front of it.

 

[Laminar]

E85 isn't going to destroy your short block.
...
unless you are calibrated for it or the system will learn and support it, your engine will run lean or not at all.

What do you think happens if you run too lean for too long?

Don't expect your running costs to be lower on E85 if you are using more of it to keep up with gas energy wise.

Highly depends on the vehicle and the local fuel cost. E85 is 30-40% cheaper around here and my mileage drops by 21-28% when running it, so it's a net gain for me (besides having to fill up more often).

Might be fun with a set of high flow injectors and a proper tune though.

Stock 2.7 is dual injection from the factory so it doesn't have the same limitations as the other/older DI-only EcoBoosts. F-150 can run E85 no problems on the stock fuel system - 5 star swapped to bigger turbos and is putting down 550+ whp on the factory fuel system.

It would have been interesting to see what the difference in boost and tinimg was between gas and E85. There has to be some limits somewhere?

The limit becomes the tiny turbos. They're sized for low-end response at the expense of top-end power. Normally, boost and timing have to get pulled at the top end because of heat and the threat of knock. E85 cools the charge and prevents knock, so you can run all of the timing and boost in the world until the turbo hits its flow wall where it gets so wildly inefficient that it's not worth pushing any harder.

A couple things, as stated your mpg will be dramatically reduced and I find it difficult to believe without seeing actual dyno results it increases hp without tuning. Flex fuel compatible vehicles have ethanol content sensors in the fuel system which commands different fuel maps, timing maps and probably boost to take advantage of the cooler running high octane e85. Fuel alone there should be no benefit without tuning to take advantage of it. With tuning, yes you can make a lot more hp but fuel mileage will still be terrible.

Simply switching to E85 flex fuel won’t instantly increase your engine’s horsepower. Your engine needs:

To be compatible with E85 fuel
To be tuned to improve timing and power

A lot to unpack here. Ford has never used ethanol sensors like GM flex fuel vehicles do. They measure vapor pressure in the fuel tank and from that are able to infer the ethanol content of the fuel. (edit: Ford monitors for lean or rich conditions immediately after a fillup and infers ethanol percent in the first few miles). A little more math than using a flex sensor directly, but it works.

EcoBoosts have fuel, timing, and boost maps designed to make max (safe, factory) power on the engine. Based on readings from the O2 sensors and knock sensors, they will add/remove fuel and add/remove timing to keep everything running correctly. It's why they magically make more power when you put premium in.

If you put E30 in an EcoBoost, it will notice the engine running leaner and add fuel to compensate. It will notice a lack of detonation and allow the spark to advance further. Boom, more power.

https://forum.hptuners.com/showthread.php?91585-Enabling-Flex-Fuel-on-EcoBoost

On top of that, Flex Fuel Support is just a check box in the factory PCM.

MPT hit ~450whp and ~510wtq on an E50 blend and an otherwise completely stock engine/fuel system.

https://www.morepowertuning.com/2018-20-f150-27-ecoboost-tune-descriptions

Above about E50 the gains drop off, so the main advantage to running full E85 is just to be able to fill up at the pump without trying to blend everything.

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