Roger123

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The base Defender isn't double, it's priced pretty much exactly the same as a well equipped badlands.
I think he may have been referring to payload, not price.
 

North7

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I predict that by 2023 there will be an IFS option for the Wrangler
Good call, when the JL came out they were working on an IFS suspension but Mike Manley decided to avoid a rebellion from the Jeep diehards. It would not take much for them to dust off the design and release it.

2016 Jeep Wrangler May Ditch Solid Axles

Next Generation Jeep Wrangler IFS Myth Debunked

I read an article about 2016-2017, a link from allpar.com, that Mike Manley said he would not put IFS in the JL due to a possible fan rebellion. Some stories at that time said some Jeep engineers were working on it. Within the last month or so someone posted here about that work, @Nickp do you remember the post?

If they have already completed or nearly completed the IFS Engineering they may dust that off and put put it on some trims or make it an option. The Rubicon and Sport could stay SFA for the diehards.
 
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Garemlin

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YES! Bronco wins! And it should win for couple of good reasons.
First Ford did their research and targeted Toyota, Land Rover, and Jeep Wrangler. I match the Black Diamond to the 4 Runner and they built a more capable and more affordable match. I match the Wild Track to the Land Rover that has better trail capabilities at a better price. Of course, the big target was Wrangler and they beat it on every model from the Sport (vs Base) that has roll down windows and no air conditioning to the Rubicon (vs the Bad Lands) that has plastic bumpers and halogen head lights.
Second, Jeep has been using and abusing the customer base with less and less for more and more. Ford has exposed Jeep for not trying to build a better vehicle. Lockers are now only on Rubicons, LEDs are an expensive add on, steel bumpers are an add on with a Rubicon where Ford has LED and rock rails/skid plate/ steel bumpers standard on the BL. If you have checked - Jeep Wrangler still does not have a 2022 option. Ford Bronco has embarrassed Jeep - just as this article demonstrates.
Order banks for the 2022 Wranglers opened at the beginning of October. You can't judge anything by the build and price site.

I'll agree that Ford beats Jeep with some standard features. But Ford dropped the ball with packages. Cold weather package on the Rubicon costs $695 and includes heated seats and steering wheel. You have to spend over $5k to get the Lux package with heated steering wheel.

So let's equip a Badlands 2.3 auto with the Lux package and modular bumper and we are at $53590.

Now we'll take a Rubicon auto 2.0 and add cold weather package, premium audio with nav, advance safety group, LED headlight package, steel bumper package. That's bringing both to pretty close in features and options. Total is $55445.

A difference of $1855. Which when spending this much isn't that much of a difference.

I'm not defending Jeep. They have had the market cornered for years so they pretty much did what they want. But the Bronco has made them take notice and start making changes. The Xtreme Recon package. The 392. The soon to be available washout interior. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see Jeep have a second row removable roof panel and cowel mounted mirrors in the next few years.

But let's be honest. Ford didn't do everything right. The doors are not exactly easy to remove. As mentioned the package groupings suck. Carpeted cargo area and rear seat backs with the washout interior. Etc....

Competition breeds imitation and innovation. I'm sure Jeep will do things that will make Ford take notice and try to one-up them. It's a win win for all of us.
 

Davebear13

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Order banks for the 2022 Wranglers opened at the beginning of October. You can't judge anything by the build and price site.

I'll agree that Ford beats Jeep with some standard features. But Ford dropped the ball with packages. Cold weather package on the Rubicon costs $695 and includes heated seats and steering wheel. You have to spend over $5k to get the Lux package with heated steering wheel.

So let's equip a Badlands 2.3 auto with the Lux package and modular bumper and we are at $53590.

Now we'll take a Rubicon auto 2.0 and add cold weather package, premium audio with nav, advance safety group, LED headlight package, steel bumper package. That's bringing both to pretty close in features and options. Total is $55445.

A difference of $1855. Which when spending this much isn't that much of a difference.

I'm not defending Jeep. They have had the market cornered for years so they pretty much did what they want. But the Bronco has made them take notice and start making changes. The Xtreme Recon package. The 392. The soon to be available washout interior. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see Jeep have a second row removable roof panel and cowel mounted mirrors in the next few years.

But let's be honest. Ford didn't do everything right. The doors are not exactly easy to remove. As mentioned the package groupings suck. Carpeted cargo area and rear seat backs with the washout interior. Etc....

Competition breeds imitation and innovation. I'm sure Jeep will do things that will make Ford take notice and try to one-up them. It's a win win for all of us.
Jeep still does not have a 2022 model year available, so adding the modular bumper to a badlands is not needed in the Ford 2021 model (when comparing 2021 to 2021) and in 2022 you are still getting a steel bumper where in the Rubicon you are not. The Lux package offers a lot more than just a heated steering wheel, so again not a good comparison. The rear axle final drive ratios are much better in the Bronco. The affordable engine choices in the Bronco have much higher torque and more HP. You can add rear lockers to Big Bend and Outer Banks, and Sasquatch to all but the Wild Track, where in jeep it is only in the Rubicon. Sorry, I see you are a jeep guy and jeep does deserve credit for staying in the market but jeep has a lot of models to drive around town/mall crasher but only one model that is truly an off road model where Ford allows you to own off road vehicle on all the models - even the Base, Big Bend, and Outer Banks which are standard mall crashers. Heated steering wheels are nice to have but really, that is what is important to you in an off road vehicle?
 

Philly

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I predict that by 2023 there will be an IFS option for the Wrangler
Was previously slated for 2023 with the model refresh, but covid and supply chain issues delayed it to 2026/2027. I can’t remember which year, but it’s coming.
 

Garemlin

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Jeep still does not have a 2022 model year available, so adding the modular bumper to a badlands is not needed in the Ford 2021 model (when comparing 2021 to 2021) and in 2022 you are still getting a steel bumper where in the Rubicon you are not. The Lux package offers a lot more than just a heated steering wheel, so again not a good comparison. The rear axle final drive ratios are much better in the Bronco. The affordable engine choices in the Bronco have much higher torque and more HP. You can add rear lockers to Big Bend and Outer Banks, and Sasquatch to all but the Wild Track, where in jeep it is only in the Rubicon. Sorry, I see you are a jeep guy and jeep does deserve credit for staying in the market but jeep has a lot of models to drive around town/mall crasher but only one model that is truly an off road model where Ford allows you to own off road vehicle on all the models - even the Base, Big Bend, and Outer Banks which are standard mall crashers. Heated steering wheels are nice to have but really, that is what is important to you in an off road vehicle?
Again order banks for the 2022 Wrangler opened at the beginning of October and production starts in a few weeks. How do they not have a 2022 model???

I'm far from a Jeep guy. I buy and drive what I like. My next vehicle will either be another Gladiator, a next gen Ranger or a Bronco. I'm hoping things will be sorted out enough that it will be a Bronco.

Fully aware what's available in the Lux package. I was just stating that you have to spend $5k to get something as simple as a heating steering wheel. Where you can get the cold weather package in a Jeep for $695. Stupid packaging of options. I also added all of the option packages to the Wrangler to make it a fair of a comparison as possible to the Lux package. So yeah it's a perfectly fine comparison. And no a heated steering wheel is not that important to me. It's nice to have. But not $5k worth of nice. No need for such a separation of two options that most manufacturers package together anyway.

To say the Rubicon is the only true off road model is just silly. This is a base Wrangler with stock tires. It isn't always about the equipment.



I will give you the engine choices in the Bronco in comparison to the Wrangler. Though the 2.0 is no slouch and is $500 cheaper than the 3.6. You just can't get it in a stick.
 

PDiddy

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This.
Again, my experience is purely anecdotal - but then so is the reviewers. I drive my 2 door at 75 - 80 almost every day. One hand on the wheel, sipping my coffee with the other. It's pretty darn solid. Does it drift a little? Sure, but it's a predictable, consistent drift. A few days behind the wheel and you should know exactly how it's going to behave.
Is the Bronco better on the pavement? Of course. But the reviewer seems to be saying Jeep should dump the SFA because folks who never go off road would find it more appealing.
Here's a thought: maybe it doesn't have to be for everyone.
Sorry to vent, but the idea that making things more 'vanella' for broader appeal annoys the shit out of me. Give me unique character - and the compromises that come with it - any day.
I have nothing against them being used as mall crawlers - but don't bitch about them not being as comfortable as a typical soccer mom SUV.
There's a reason the Bronco and Wrangler stand apart from the dreary obscurity of the pack. They're designed with a different priority in mind.
And all the better for it.
Screenshot_20211026-174837_YouTube.jpg
Man, you said it a lot better than I could. Fully agree, I’ll take some compromises over bland all day. Our Bronco soft top is noisy while driving, but I don’t mind it all.
 

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To say the Rubicon is the only true off road model is just silly. This is a base Wrangler with stock tires. It isn't always about the equipment.
Sadly, there's a contingent in the Jeep forums who feel the same. Maybe they need to justify the extra cost. But for about $300 - $400 you can bring a sport up to 97% of a rubi's capability. Quick disco's, a rubi take off suspension and rails and Bob's your uncle. The best mod is still experience and good judgement in the driver's seat. That will always be worth more than a few 'easy buttons' on the dash.
Most of the time the 'which is better' discussion between the Wrangler and Bronco will come down to the skill behind the wheel.
 

BD1

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Even the automotive media sees the shortcomings Ford should have paid more attention to:
Yep. I have a 2 door badlands and traded in Jeep rubicon 2 door. Overall I really like the bronco and in most areas it is better than the 2018 Jeep I owned but Ford missed in these areas listed above. Also the B&O sound system is ok but not as good as the Alpine jeep system.…in addition to the well discussed MIC/MOD/Soft top issues. Jeep does better with the tops (which took them a number of generations to improve which I experienced first hand). Plus interior color/material (lack of) choices. I am hoping Ford improves all of these areas in future update. On the other hand, the ford 2.7 is much better than the 3.6 I had in the Jeep. And the 2 door bronco size increase makes the 2 door more practical.

All that said….I do really like and enjoy my Bronco and glad I traded my Jeep in for it.
 

Bronco cat

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Seeing the 2.0L not only out perform the 2.3EB but also get better fuel economy while mated to an 8spd auto was disheartening.

Maybe Ford should include the performance packs at no charge to right this rather embarrassing revelation. Might as well include it for the 2.7EBs too.
What is exactly embarrassing? Drama much
 

Wanted33

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“Lows: Woefully uncouth on the road, uncomfortable interior, waves from other Jeepers.”

😂 that wasn’t nice!
I wonder what these weenies consider "uncouth". My Jeep does drive different, but that's because of the SFA. I could call them a few other names, but I'll leave it where it is.

Of course there is one thing that Stellantis can do that Ford just can't. That's build, and deliver you a new Jeep Wrangler with all the options you want in approx. 8 weeks. Take that Ford. I wonder what those weenies have to say 'bout dat? :)
 

ohvrider

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The base Defender isn't double, it's priced pretty much exactly the same as a well equipped badlands.
I wasn't talking price but GVWR.
 

F2F Terrain

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Again order banks for the 2022 Wrangler opened at the beginning of October and production starts in a few weeks. How do they not have a 2022 model???

I'm far from a Jeep guy. I buy and drive what I like. My next vehicle will either be another Gladiator, a next gen Ranger or a Bronco. I'm hoping things will be sorted out enough that it will be a Bronco.

Fully aware what's available in the Lux package. I was just stating that you have to spend $5k to get something as simple as a heating steering wheel. Where you can get the cold weather package in a Jeep for $695. Stupid packaging of options. I also added all of the option packages to the Wrangler to make it a fair of a comparison as possible to the Lux package. So yeah it's a perfectly fine comparison. And no a heated steering wheel is not that important to me. It's nice to have. But not $5k worth of nice. No need for such a separation of two options that most manufacturers package together anyway.

To say the Rubicon is the only true off road model is just silly. This is a base Wrangler with stock tires. It isn't always about the equipment.



I will give you the engine choices in the Bronco in comparison to the Wrangler. Though the 2.0 is no slouch and is $500 cheaper than the 3.6. You just can't get it in a stick.
A stock sport is pretty damn impressive. I’m willing to bet that 95% of the BL owners on this forum wouldn’t attempt the same lines. Also, while It might seem bias since I do own a Jeep JL, it’s hard to deny how capable Jeep’s BLD is. The Bronco has terrible BLD by comparison and that’s why I would never own a Bronco without at least a rear locker.
 

Garemlin

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Of course there is one thing that Stellantis can do that Ford just can't. That's build, and deliver you a new Jeep Wrangler with all the options you want in approx. 8 weeks. Take that Ford. I wonder what those weenies have to say 'bout dat? :)

That's gonna strike a nerve. Lol
 
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