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Confused about the high towing rating on new Rapter vs Bronco

Lakelife36

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They test using standard trailers with each one required specific tongue lengths, tires, number of axels, and most importantly minimum frontal square footage. Unfortunately they're pretty discrete. 3500lb (30ft2) -> 3850lb (31ft2) -> 5000lb (40ft2).

Why the weird separation? My guess is a couple OEMs had 31ft2 trailers and when the standard was created it allowed them to certify at the lower the ballast 3500lbs OR make use of the extra 1 sq. ft and certify to 3850lbs without having to buy all new trailers.
I am lucky and thankful to have been granted access to the actual SAE J2807 document instead of bits and pieces like in the past. The document appears clear about standard trailers to be used, then throws in an Appendix with exemplars that do not at all conform to the standard trailers in the body. It is unfortunately still a little confusing.

Like you said though, it looks at first glance like 3850lbs is an option. My initial question remains then, in what was it that was actually tested? Did they only test with a 3500lb trailer and add ballast to the tow vehicle until it failed one of the tests? Did they even try with a 5000lb trailer and WDH on a Class III receiver? Did they assume that Sasquatch has 33% penetration and use vehicles with that package, but not without?

I still go back to the facts that the published GCWRs are the same between 2- and 4-door for each, and they are generally very high relative to the tow cap given. Typically GCWR = curb weight + 300lbs + tow cap, and tow cap isn't always one of the discrete numbers given in those tables in SAE J2807. It just doesn't add up, and I just wish that Ford would be straight with us on what they did to get those numbers.
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The new rapter was announced today and they switched to a single axel 5 link coilover setup in the rear which I understand (could be wrong and thus the confusion) similar to what the Bronco has. There is no more leaf spring and its soft sprung for desert running similar to a wildtrak. So what gives with the Bronco tow weight restriction and the Rapter gets a tow weight improvement over last year? I guess the coils and the shocks are the difference but just seemed interesting to me. Somethings missing in my understanding there. Anyways just bitching about Bronco tow weight limits again, just seems like this stuff is just arbitrarily made up to match Jeep. I understand the engine, brakes, cooling, etc go into a rating but let's be real, its a ranger frame, 2.7L EcoBoost from an F150 and I'm sure they didn't put peewee herman brakes on it so that leaves cooling and suspension. Just missing my 5K rating, I will go back to my cave again and shutup and just enjoy my Bronco.
it is not just springs. it is brakes, engine and driveline. also the wheel base and platform stability while towing. the brakes on the bronco fit inside the dish of a 16 inch wheel. if i am not mistaken, the raptor has much larger wheels and accommodate much larger brakes... stopping a load at speed is the most important safety factor..
 

Lakelife36

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it is not just springs. it is brakes, engine and driveline. also the wheel base and platform stability while towing. the brakes on the bronco fit inside the dish of a 16 inch wheel. if i am not mistaken, the raptor has much larger wheels and accommodate much larger brakes... stopping a load at speed is the most important safety factor..
The Ranger also comes stock with 16" rims and has the brakes to support a 7500lb tow cap. Brakes can not be an excuse here.
 

rdass623

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The Ranger also comes stock with 16" rims and has the brakes to support a 7500lb tow cap. Brakes can not be an excuse here.
good luck i wish you the best... i am just old and cautious.
 

NotApplicable

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I am confused how one can be confused that two minimally-related vehicles do not have the same characteristics and ratings
 

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brettclutch

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Your NotApplicable name is fitting. Since your response is not applicable. I joke/kid don't take offense, was too funny not to anti-troll you. :)

Keep it light, its not too far-fetched to be confused. Use the force, Luke.

In the end, it's a morbid curiosity that still isn't satisfied despite all the speculation and reference to multiple factors and a mysterious SAE J2807 document.

I'll spell it out in clear terms:

-> You take a F150 3.5 ecoboost with a 8,200 lbs tow rating and turn it into an 'Desert Runner/Offroad Biased' version and call it a Raptor, the tow rating is still 8,200 lbs.

-> You take a ford ranger base with a 2.3 ecoboost with a 7,500 lbs tow rating and turn it into a 'Desert Runner/Offroad Biased' version and call it a Bronco, the tow rating is now 3,500 lbs.

Obviously, there is something missing in the above equation, but no one really knows exactly what the holdback is that triggered the tow rating reduction. I always assumed it was primarily suspension/brakes.
 

Lakelife36

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Your NotApplicable name is fitting. Since your response is not applicable. I joke/kid don't take offense, was too funny not to anti-troll you. :)

Keep it light, its not too far-fetched to be confused. Use the force, Luke.

In the end, it's a morbid curiosity that still isn't satisfied despite all the speculation and reference to multiple factors and a mysterious SAE J2807 document.

I'll spell it out in clear terms:

-> You take a F150 3.5 ecoboost with a 8,200 lbs tow rating and turn it into an 'Desert Runner/Offroad Biased' version and call it a Raptor, the tow rating is still 8,200 lbs.

-> You take a ford ranger base with a 2.3 ecoboost with a 7,500 lbs tow rating and turn it into a 'Desert Runner/Offroad Biased' version and call it a Bronco, the tow rating is now 3,500 lbs.

Obviously, there is something missing in the above equation, but no one really knows exactly what the holdback is that triggered the tow rating reduction. I always assumed it was primarily suspension/brakes.
This isn't entirely accurate, but still illustrates the point well. From page 20 of the attached Ford towing guide, the 2021 F-150 supercrew 4x4 with 5 1/2' bed and 3.5L EB but no max tow package (same setup as Raptor) is rated with a GCWR of 16,800lbs and a tow cap of 11,200lbs. The Raptor is rated with a GCWR of 14,500lbs and a tow cap of 8,200lbs. So moving to the Raptor drops the GCWR by 2,300lbs and the tow cap by 3,000lbs. This is with the same wheelbase. I assume that the Raptor's curb weight is approximately 700lbs higher (would make up for the difference in difference between GCWR and curb weight) but I don't have firm documentation on that off-hand.

Now to the Ranger and Bronco (page 35). A 2.3L EB Ranger with tow package has a GCWR between 12,150lbs and 12,500lbs (Supercab 4x2 to Supercrew 4x4) with a tow cap of 7,500lbs. Again, I'm assuming that the minor increase in curb weight as you get longer and add 4x4 makes the difference in GCWR for the same tow cap, although that would mean that they targeted a tow cap and then tested a GCWR to suit. The Bronco with 2.3L EB and tow package has a max GCWR of 8,780lbs and a max tow cap of 3,500lbs (upper trims are slightly less due to very high curb weight). So moving to the Bronco drops the GCWR by 3,370 to 3,720lbs, and the tow cap by at least 4,000lbs.

So both the GCWR and the tow cap drop at least 1,000lbs more between the Ranger and Bronco than between the F-150 and Raptor. Not only is this a larger number in the absolute sense, it is a much much larger number in the relative sense. 16,800lbs down to 14,500lbs is about a 14% drop, while 12,150 to 12,500lbs down to 8,780lbs is a 28 to 30% drop!

Now for everybody screaming about changes to wheelbases and transmissions right now I'll do you a favour here. If you go back to page 20 and look at the F-150s you'll notice that for the same cab and drivetrain there is no appreciable difference in GCWR and tow cap between long boxes and short boxes, despite having approximately 18" (11 to 14%) difference in wheelbase. Similarly, there is absolutely no difference in GCWR or tow cap (except in the upper trims where the very high curb weight of the 4-doors makes a slight difference) between 4-door and 2-door Broncos despite having approximately 16" (also 14%) difference in wheelbase. So the approximately 11" (and only 9%) difference between the Ranger and the 4-door should have no bearing here. For the weaker 10R60 transmission in the Bronco vs. the 10R80 in the F-150 and Ranger, I will point you to page 36. An AWD Explorer with the 2.3L EB and the tow package makes 10,100lbs GCWR and 5,300lbs tow cap, both of which are much higher than the Bronco. And yes, the Explorer uses the 10R60. If you must know, even though we've shown it to be irrelevant to Ford's ratings at the micro scale, the wheeelbase of the Explorer is 119.1", or 3" longer than the 4-door.

So in short yes, something is significantly amiss. @Eggsalad suspects that cooling is a significant issue here. I for one would love for Ford to actually tell us what the limitations are, although I doubt they ever will.
 

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brettclutch

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Lakelife,

Thank you for spelling it out completely. 100% with you but was too lazy to go into that depth and took some 'liberties' to demonstrate the point.
 
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brettclutch

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So the saga is completed and the questions are answered.

Ford Bronco Confused about the high towing rating on new Rapter vs Bronco 1643065986006

Ford Bronco Confused about the high towing rating on new Rapter vs Bronco 1643066019443


Ford Bronco Confused about the high towing rating on new Rapter vs Bronco 1643066700217


Apparently Rapter Fox shocks, increased braking, and increased footprint get you 1K more towing. Hmmmm..... wait..... whats that? ..... 2 re-enforcements bars for the increased weight and the frame?!?!?! Hmm, I wonder if my base bronco (yet to be delivered) would have such bracing if it would fix the tow rating. Common ford, seriously, two tiny braces of metal for 1K more towing.

Ah anyways I already found my lightweight trailer solution when my Bronco gets here so I won't bash too hard but just seems sily they couldn't do that retroactively on the base bronco.
 
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Lakelife36

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So the saga is completed and the questions are answered.

Ford Bronco Confused about the high towing rating on new Rapter vs Bronco 1643066700217

Ford Bronco Confused about the high towing rating on new Rapter vs Bronco 1643066700217


Ford Bronco Confused about the high towing rating on new Rapter vs Bronco 1643066700217


Apparently Rapter Fox shocks, increased braking, and increased footprint get you 1K more towing. Hmmmm..... wait..... whats that? ..... 2 re-enforcements bars for the increased weight and the frame?!?!?! Hmm, I wonder if my base bronco (yet to be delivered) would have such bracing if it would fix the tow rating. Common ford, seriously, two tiny braces of metal for 1K more towing.

Ah anyways I already found my lightweight trailer solution when my Bronco gets here so I won't bash too hard but just seems sily they couldn't do that retroactively on the base bronco.
I hadn't seen any pictures and assumed it was a whole different reciever mounted to the rails. Those photos make the whole thing look silly again.
 

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All I know is the rear of my 4dr BL squats with my offroad camper. The 2 reinforcement bars wont help me and I’ll be looking at different coilover setups (maybe adjustable) since the helper bags that go inside the coils isnt an option. I have 3 months to figure this out before season starts.
 
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brettclutch

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All I know is the rear of my 4dr BL squats with my offroad camper. The 2 reinforcement bars wont help me and I’ll be looking at different coilover setups (maybe adjustable) since the helper bags that go inside the coils isnt an option. I have 3 months to figure this out before season starts.
What trailer? What weight? Are you using a weight distributing hitch?
 

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What trailer? What weight? Are you using a weight distributing hitch?
We dont do formal campgrounds. My trailer (Patriot Campers X1) is built for truly going off the grid with its 360 degree articulating hitch, ground clearance (close to 20") & departure angle (40 degrees) and I have been known to rock crawl with it to get to those epic spots…so a weight-distribution setup is out of a question due to clearance issues.

My 4dr BL on the stock KO2s requires a 2.75" rise. I've since installed a spare tire relocation bracket to move the spare up a few inches so I can avoid not having to run an extended/long ball mount I so I can have the clearance to hook up the trailer and clear the tow pin & spare tire. Haven't been able to test it out since the install due to cold weather.

I'm also shuffling some weight around on the trailer and need to do so when I have my tongue scale out. Fully loaded including 40 gal of water, 3 gal diesel, (2) 11 lb propane tanks, fully stocked food/drinks for 2 people & food for 2 large dogs, all gear and clothes weighs just over 3300lbs. I've ran 12% tongue weight over the last couple of years with no issues on the other 2 tow vehicles, but doesn't look like it'll be doable with the BL.
 

zedster

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We dont do formal campgrounds. My trailer (Patriot Campers X1) is built for truly going off the grid with its 360 degree articulating hitch, ground clearance (close to 20") & departure angle (40 degrees) and I have been known to rock crawl with it to get to those epic spots…so a weight-distribution setup is out of a question due to clearance issues.

My 4dr BL on the stock KO2s requires a 2.75" rise. I've since installed a spare tire relocation bracket to move the spare up a few inches so I can avoid not having to run an extended/long ball mount I so I can have the clearance to hook up the trailer and clear the tow pin & spare tire. Haven't been able to test it out since the install due to cold weather.

I'm also shuffling some weight around on the trailer and need to do so when I have my tongue scale out. Fully loaded including 40 gal of water, 3 gal diesel, (2) 11 lb propane tanks, fully stocked food/drinks for 2 people & food for 2 large dogs, all gear and clothes weighs just over 3300lbs. I've ran 12% tongue weight over the last couple of years with no issues on the other 2 tow vehicles, but doesn't look like it'll be doable with the BL.
You say you are a Badlands but are you SAS? What tire relocation bracket did you use? I tried hooking up my utility trailer and had the hardest time because the lever for the hitch would hit the spare tire. Guess they didn't think this through too well. I thought I would need to remove the spare.
 

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You say you are a Badlands but are you SAS? What tire relocation bracket did you use? I tried hooking up my utility trailer and had the hardest time because the lever for the hitch would hit the spare tire. Guess they didn't think this through too well. I thought I would need to remove the spare.
Non sasquatch so just the standard 33” KO2s. Here is a pic of how my trailer hooks up to the DO35 tow pin.

DCF0FA15-9035-4EF3-BE7F-6010F2546683.jpeg


617975CA-5F51-4BDC-9613-10FE38B4741F.jpeg
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