CR: Which Car Brands Make the Best Vehicles?

[Carolina Jim]

Ugh CR and JD Power are terrible metrics for evaluating vehicles and manufacturers.

2020 units sold:

FCA	1,820,443​
Ford Motor Company	2,034,600​
General Motors	2,537,590​
Mazda	279,076​
Toyota Motor Corp	2,112,940​

I guess 2 ways to interpret this:

Mazda (ranked #1) could'a been EVEN BETTER if they had Ford's revenue to play with

Ford (ranked #25) customers must think they're much better than ranked

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[timhood]

Which Car Brands Make the Best Vehicles? - Consumer Reports

Spoiler Alert: Ford falls 12 spots to Number 25

How We Rank the Car Brands
The Overall Score for individual models is based on four key factors: the road test, reliability, owner satisfaction, and safety.
For the Road-Test Score, we put the vehicles we buy through more than 50 tests and evaluations.
Predicted Reliability ratings are based on the problems reported by members in 17 trouble areas in CR’s auto surveys.
Owner Satisfaction predictions are based on whether CR members say in our surveys that they’d buy the same vehicle again, if given the chance.
Safety includes an assessment of crash-test results and extra points awarded for vehicles that come with proven safety features standard on all trims.
Green Choices reflect how many tested vehicles from a brand earned the Green Choice designation for being among the cleanest, lowest-emitting passenger vehicles.

This isn't really the right metric for someone who is buying a car model. If brand is your priority, then maybe this has merit, but I look more closely at model-specific parameters--features available, cost and reliability. CR is excellent at showing reliability for past models, due to their huge sampling of owners. However, that's always a look in the rearview mirror best suited for people buying used. As they say, past performance does not guarantee future performance. We can look at the brand overall as a guideline. Really, what all of us are hoping for is that there's enough existing, proven and refined tech in the Bronco that new-model issues will be minimal or reasonable and that we'll enjoy our Broncos.

 

[timhood]

Just climate propaganda. Tesla will get a "good score" on being a green choice even though at the end of the day teslas are powered by coal and natural gas.

Not sure 16th place for an all-electric company is a "good score".

 

[L8apex]

CR is excellent at showing reliability for past models, due to their huge sampling of owners.

Even that is skewed massively. The owner that is willing to take time out of their day to complete an unpaid survey is a very specific person. Probably the same person that is writing 3 star Yelp reviews for McDonalds.

 

[Medhass]

Isn't Mazda a FORD owned company
I believe Mazda vehicles have ford all over them

 

[Deleted member 3063]

...

 

[King Luis]

This isn't really the right metric for someone who is buying a car model. If brand is your priority, then maybe this has merit, but I look more closely at model-specific parameters--features available, cost and reliability. CR is excellent at showing reliability for past models, due to their huge sampling of owners. However, that's always a look in the rearview mirror best suited for people buying used. As they say, past performance does not guarantee future performance. We can look at the brand overall as a guideline. Really, what all of us are hoping for is that there's enough existing, proven and refined tech in the Bronco that new-model issues will be minimal or reasonable and that we'll enjoy our Broncos.

agreed. it's also the manufacturers that are slow to innovate that are the most reliable. they also have the most numb driving cars. IE, Toyota, Hyundai, Lexus, etc. Some exceptions though like Porsche. But they make enthusiast cars and are usually liked because they are drivers cars driven by drivers.

 

[Rick Astley]

Isn't Mazda a FORD owned company
I believe Mazda vehicles have ford all over them

Ford and Mazda split in 2008 when Ford sold 20% of it's stake. They (Ford) still own a non-controlling 13% of Mazda which isn't enough to give them any strength/power/vote to influence the company in any way. Just like once you buy your Bronco, it doesn't give you the power to influence Ford as a company.

They each purchase parts from some of the same suppliers, but there is no formal corporate connection and they do not share engineering costs for said parts.

 

[Medhass]

Ford and Mazda split in 2008 when Ford sold 20% of it's stake. They (Ford) still own a non-controlling 13% of Mazda which isn't enough to give them any strength/power/vote to influence the company in any way. Just like once you buy your Bronco, it doesn't give you the power to influence Ford as a company.

They each purchase parts from some of the same suppliers, but there is no formal corporate connection and they do not share engineering costs for said parts.

I had a 2016 focus st not long ago and the engine in it was the exact same one in some Mazda models.

 

[Rick Astley]

I had a 2016 focus st not long ago and the engine in it was the exact same one in some Mazda models.

That block ("L")was co-engineered by the Ford/Mazda group well before their split, it saw service in Mazda products starting in 2001. The motors diverged materially post their divorce and Ford had it's own systems and controls over it for their Duratec use and technologies which weren't flowing over except as purchased technology (much in the same way that Mazda's hybrid system, when they eventually produce a hybrid, will just be Toyota's purchased hybrid system). Mazda can't afford to develop these motors/technologies themselves, they are a drastically smaller company with limited resources yet produce and have more tie-ins with others due to this.

That developing a new motor or chassis has an effective cost of around half billion dollars for a motor and at least one billion dollars for a chassis, you aren't going to find substantial changes to engines from generation to generation as you would have in the 1960's.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_L_engine

 

[Rick Astley]

I had a 2016 focus st not long ago and the engine in it was the exact same one in some Mazda models.

What's really going to blow your mind (if you bothered to look into it), is where Ford's 2.3 engine came from and where it was developed..... @Carolina Jim also has some info on how far back this motor goes....

Doesn't mean it's not a viable motor and gives you a better understanding of how an engine block ages over the years (decades).....

 

[Used2jeep]

Consumer reports has no idea how to measure this segment of vehicle, and who to ask about the valuation of this segment of vehicle.

If you followed their logic no one would buy a Wrangler, and resale would be a bottomless pit. Meanwhile I just received $11000 from my insurance company for a totaled 2000 Sahara with 155k miles on it: something like 48% depreciation over 20 years.

Are you related to @Nickp ?

 

[Medhass]

What's really going to blow your mind (if you bothered to look into it), is where Ford's 2.3 engine came from and where it was developed..... @Carolina Jim also has some info on how far back this motor goes....

Doesn't mean it's not a viable motor and gives you a better understanding of how an engine block ages over the years (decades).....

Bro I thought you were leave me and others on a cliff hanger

 

[BrentC]

Just climate propaganda. Tesla will get a "good score" on being a green choice even though at the end of the day teslas are powered by coal and natural gas.

Inefficiently powered by coal, oil and gas, I may add. And that doesn’t even account for the roughly 500,000 lbs of dirt that needs to be moved in the mining process to produce one - 1000lb battery needed by each EV.

 

[Neps]

Isn't Mazda a FORD owned company
I believe Mazda vehicles have ford all over them

Nope, Mazda- unlike Volvo, Jaguar, and Land Rover was never owned by Ford.

Ford partnered with Mazda starting in the 1970's and in 1996 increased its holding to 33% of Mazda shares. Then in late 2008 Ford sold the majority of its shares back to Mazda, ending any control it held.

Earlier in 2008 Ford sold Jaguar and Land Rover to an Indian Company, about a year later it sold Volvo to a Chinese Frim.

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