Crawl Gear: The REAL Hill Start Assist

[SPITmadFIRE]

I found myself in a sticky situation today, stopped on a very steep hill with a city bus honking behind me, struggling to get going in first gear. Shamefully, I stalled my 6,000 lbs Badlands twice, so the honking was well deserved.

Now I know what you’re thinking — “SPITmadFIRE has no idea how to drive a manual”. In previous vehicles (all manual), I’d use all four limbs to get out of this predicament; use the e-brake to allow my right foot to switch from brake to gas, and apply gas while clutching out and releasing the e-brake slowly. In my RS, I’ve used Hill Start Assist and for the most part did away with the e-brake start altogether. This was the first time trying to use Hill Start Assist in my Bronco (at a very familiar stop sign I’ve navigated just fine in all previous vehicles without stalling).

Even with Hill Start Assist, this Badlands is simply too heavy to comfortably hill start in first gear. I was already applying what I felt was too much gas the first time I stalled, and was confused by how fast the engine bogged down. But then I remembered, I have an even lower gear…

Since I haven’t done any off-roading before, I didn’t expect my crawl gear to get a whole lot of use, and definitely not on pavement. I’m of a completely different mindset now. The crawl gear is the perfect gear for getting this behemoth moving up a steep hill. Using the crawl gear to get moving up this steep grade was as easy as getting rolling in first on flat pavement.

TL;DR: Hill Start Assist works fine for moderate hills, but break out the crawl gear for steep stops — you’ll thank me later.

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[Hkak45]

Do you not roll backwards when it is in crawl and you release the clutch?

 

[SPITmadFIRE]

Do you not roll backwards when it is in crawl and you release the clutch?

Hill Start Assist works regardless of gear — so no, you don’t roll back even with the crawl gear engaged, foot fully on the clutch. At least not until the Hill Start Assist decides you’ve had enough brakes and lets go

 

[ProdigyJKU]

Won't stall if you don't worry about giving it too much gas, worst that happens is the tires chirp a little. Badlands isn't too heavy for it, it's got 4.7s to compensate. I got significantly heavier tires on mine with 4.47s, no issues on steep hills, never stalled or squealed on the hill by my house. Haven't even tried hill assist or crawl.

I once melted the clutch to my fly wheel on my Wrangler. I was making my 8th pasd at the dragstrip pushing double the hp/tq of the stock V6.

Anyway the clutch pedal was useless, there was no way to release the clutch once it melted solid. I drove it home by shutting it off at every stop and cranking it in 1st till the starter got the Jeep rolling fast enogh to fire the engine, the stuggle to get the rpmd exactly perfect to slide it into the next gear with no help from the clutch. There is a steep hill by my house with a traffic light at the top. I ended up gettimg stuck at the light with several cars behind me. When it turned green I hit the starter, it turned once and then seized, the starter wasn't strong enough to pull it up the incline. I dropped it in 4lo and the starter had no problem pulling thr Jeep fast enough to start the engine too. Then had to fight to shift it back into 2HI while still moving.

 

[The Pope]

Yep.... just ANOTHER Example why a Manual Hand E-Brake in the Bronco with the MT would have been a better design.

@Ford Motor Company are you listening? There are times when the Tried & True Methods from over the years are the Better Methods. Stop ALWAYS Going with the Bean Counters.

 

[Dads_bronze_bronco]

I found myself in a sticky situation today, stopped on a very steep hill with a city bus honking behind me, struggling to get going in first gear. Shamefully, I stalled my 6,000 lbs Badlands twice, so the honking was well deserved.

Now I know what you’re thinking — “SPITmadFIRE has no idea how to drive a manual”. In previous vehicles (all manual), I’d use all four limbs to get out of this predicament; use the e-brake to allow my right foot to switch from brake to gas, and apply gas while clutching out and releasing the e-brake slowly. In my RS, I’ve used Hill Start Assist and for the most part did away with the e-brake start altogether. This was the first time trying to use Hill Start Assist in my Bronco (at a very familiar stop sign I’ve navigated just fine in all previous vehicles without stalling).

Even with Hill Start Assist, this Badlands is simply too heavy to comfortably hill start in first gear. I was already applying what I felt was too much gas the first time I stalled, and was confused by how fast the engine bogged down. But then I remembered, I have an even lower gear…

Since I haven’t done any off-roading before, I didn’t expect my crawl gear to get a whole lot of use, and definitely not on pavement. I’m of a completely different mindset now. The crawl gear is the perfect gear for getting this behemoth moving up a steep hill. Using the crawl gear to get moving up this steep grade was as easy as getting rolling in first on flat pavement.

TL;DR: Hill Start Assist works fine for moderate hills, but break out the crawl gear for steep stops — you’ll thank me later.

Yeah - you hit one of those examples where I don't think the clutch has enough feel (and transition). It has a very light feel, and releases very early. Another example: imagine trying to back a 3500lb trailer up a steep driveway (there is no reverse crawler gear) ...

 

[Flourman]

Yep.... just ANOTHER Example why a Manual Hand E-Brake in the Bronco with the MT would have been a better design.

@Ford Motor Company are you listening? There are times when the Tried & True Methods from over the years are the Better Methods. Stop ALWAYS Going with the Bean Counters.

Why? Let it rev, slip the clutch. If it doesn’t want to grab 1st, drop in crawler. I did this all the time in my FSB with a T-18. First gear was like 6.32:1 and not synchroed. Started in 2nd almost everywhere. Hills, throw it in first and get it going then shift when it topped out at 5mph.

NEVER have I used an e-brake to help start on a hill. A little three pedal action and some clutch slipping but never had the use to.

 

[SPITmadFIRE]

Why? Let it rev, slip the clutch. If it doesn’t want to grab 1st, drop in crawler. I did this all the time in my FSB with a T-18. First gear was like 6.32:1 and not synchroed. Started in 2nd almost everywhere. Hills, throw it in first and get it going then shift when it topped out at 5mph.

NEVER have I used an e-brake to help start on a hill. A little three pedal action and some clutch slipping but never had the use to.

In a lot of circumstances, there’s little to no room for you to roll back if you’re not using the e-brake or hill start assist.

 

[Oldhippie]

With an auto...none of this silliness...why real off-roaders have autos...but of course there is something called “heel and toe” and “crank in gear” for ya Neanderthal manual folks... ...yes my model A and mustang are manuals...

 

[Panaran]

I haven't done this in the Bronco, but with my previous manuals, I found that keeping my foot on the brake, slowly letting the clutch out until revs start to dip just a bit, and then switching over to gas works just as well as the handbrake technique. Wear on clutch is minimal if you can do it right. Just a little bit of clutch friction drastically reduces the roll back.

 

[Panaran]

With an auto...none of this silliness...why real off-roaders have autos...but of course there is something called “heel and toe” and “crank in gear” for ya Neanderthal manual folks... ...yes my model A and mustang are manuals...

Yeah, manuals are more fun (IMO) for absolutely every application except off-roading.

 

[SPITmadFIRE]

I haven't done this in the Bronco, but with my previous manuals, I found that keeping my foot on the brake, slowly letting the clutch out until revs start to dip just a bit, and then switching over to gas works just as well as the handbrake technique. Wear on clutch is minimal if you can do it right. Just a little bit of clutch friction drastically reduces the roll back.

To be clear, the Bronco has Hill Start Assist as mentioned in this thread -- you don't need to hold the brake on a hill, the car will hold the brake for you. That's not the issue here.

The issue here is that first gear on the 7MT on steep hills is not low enough to get 6,000lbs of Bronco moving without bogging down and stalling, or revving to the moon and burning up the clutch. Crawl is the ideal gear for this, in my opinion.

 

[Lcubed]

just start in low range. (on my old LR, 3rd L was about the same as 1st H)

 

[SPITmadFIRE]

just start in low range. (on my old LR, 3rd L was about the same as 1st H)

I’d much rather just use a lower gear than relying on 4L on dry pavement…

 

[Lcubed]

I’d much rather just use a lower gear than relying on 4L on dry pavement…

don't have my bronco yet, forgot there is NO 2L or 4L AWD mode (unlike my low tech LR)

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