Dealer insists it’s 6 quarts for oil change on my 2.7L

BroncoB

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Never head of anyone checking how much oil was in an engine after it failed.... Only thing I have heard of ... Hey man you had not oil in the engine..... never heard... Hey man you were a qt overfull when your engine failed....
I have. I know of 3 engine failures after a quick lube overfilled.


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BroncoB

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Oops my math was a lot flawed...so I got out just over 6.7 quarts...6.79...but close to 7.
3oz would be 6.89. Why do you round 6.79 to 6.7?
 

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I have. I know of 3 engine failures after a quick lube overfilled.
What??? by not enough oil.... or too much oil.... and if too much... what was the amount????...
 

BroncoB

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What??? by not enough oil.... or too much oil.... and if too much... what was the amount????...
It was halfway up the twist. Just kidding. I don’t know how overfull they were but their failures were a combination of blown out gaskets, bearings, and bad knocking for whatever reason. I’m just going by what they told me, I didn’t actually witness or diagnose anything. When the owners went back to the quick change shop they were met with a “sue us”. None sued, they all just got rid of their cars, wasn’t worth the hassle for them. It was quite a while ago and the cars were nothing special. These were 3 people I personally know and the reasons I would never go to a quick lube place.
 
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broncorik

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3oz would be 6.89. Why do you round 6.79 to 6.7?
1 ounce of oil by weight (from weighing the saturated filter and comparing it to a dry filter) = .98 ounce by volume, I believe...so three ounces of oil by weight = 2.94 ounces of oil by volume, yes? I rounded to 3...and 3/32 = .09 (so the oil held by the filter element came out to roughly .09 of a quart in ounces by volume). I drained 6.7 out, and added the .09 from the filter to get 6.79. I figured that because it was a new engine that by the time I changed the oil there was more than likely some (minimal) loss of oil as there tends to be for the first few thousand miles, hence my guess-timation of the 7 quarts. Even with my flawed math it was enough to convince me that from the factory there was at or close to 7 quarts. For my next oil change after that, I added exactly 7 and drained within a hair (technical term) of 7 when factoring in the saturated filter again. I am by no means a mathematician by trade (hence my blunder) but my primitive experiment/observations lead me to believe that our Broncos did in fact leave the factory (and dealer) with 7 quarts in the pan. That is what got me started on the oil thread...wondering how my car got past PDI with the level waaaay above the max mark...and here we are.
 

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It was halfway up the twist. Just kidding. I don’t know how overfull they were but their failures were a combination of blown out gaskets, bearings, and bad knocking for whatever reason. I’m just going by what they told me, I didn’t actually witness or diagnose anything. When the owners went back to the quick change shop they were met with a “sue us”. None sued, they all just got rid of their cars, wasn’t worth the hassle for them. It was quite a while ago and the cars were nothing special. These were 3 people I personally know and the reasons I would never go to a quick lube place.
I had one of the first diesel ford trucks when they came out... it was a 1 ton... had the dealer pick it up at my shop 3 miles away from them to do the first oil change.... they brought it back after the change.... for some reason ( never trust someone changing my oil but me).... I checked the oil... no oil on the stick... called them they came and picked it up and drove it back to the dealership.... come to find out the oil tec didn't know the diesel held 10qt... he put in 5qt.... so it was driven 6 miles with 5qts short.... never had a problem... drove that truck many miles pulling a goose neck trailer.... traded it in 3 years later with 75000 miles on it... the guy that bought it put 200,000 more on it and then he sold it..... true story.... also had a 1 ton Dodge diesel that was suppose to hold 11 qt.... always put in 12qt... 3gal.... never had a problem....
 

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It was halfway up the twist. Just kidding. I don’t know how overfull they were but their failures were a combination of blown out gaskets, bearings, and bad knocking for whatever reason. I’m just going by what they told me, I didn’t actually witness or diagnose anything. When the owners went back to the quick change shop they were met with a “sue us”. None sued, they all just got rid of their cars, wasn’t worth the hassle for them. It was quite a while ago and the cars were nothing special. These were 3 people I personally know and the reasons I would never go to a quick lube place.
BroncoB...did you drain off a quart already?
 

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Ford is frequently silent about controversial issues to the end users, because we are not their direct wholesale customers. The franchise dealers are, as governed by state franchise laws.

Therefore, you have to look at what they say to their own wholesale customers through SSMs and to national regulators during ongoing traffic safety investigations.

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Speaking of Ford fook-ups... has anyone taken their Bronco in to get the front windshield recall repaired yet?
 

broncorik

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I had one of the first diesel ford trucks when they came out... it was a 1 ton... had the dealer pick it up at my shop 3 miles away from them to do the first oil change.... they brought it back after the change.... for some reason ( never trust someone changing my oil but me).... I checked the oil... no oil on the stick... called them they came and picked it up and drove it back to the dealership.... come to find out the oil tec didn't know the diesel held 10qt... he put in 5qt.... so it was driven 6 miles with 5qts short.... never had a problem... drove that truck many miles pulling a goose neck trailer.... traded it in 3 years later with 75000 miles on it... the guy that bought it put 200,000 more on it and then he sold it..... true story.... also had a 1 ton Dodge diesel that was suppose to hold 11 qt.... always put in 12qt... 3gal.... never had a problem....
I'd rather have low oil (as long as the pump pickup is covered and there is no loss in oil pressure) than too much oil any day if the week. There are many cars on the road with oil levels that are way down on the stick or not even reading on the stick (because many half-wits rarely check their oil). Less oil (but enough oil to maintain pressure) will get dirtier faster, but the effects in the engine will not be immediately noticeable. If your truck had only 5 quarts in it there was probably at least several quarts in the pan/sump while running hence no damage.
 

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Akinmx

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Ford will most likely just say "customer should have checked the manual" (which they quietly/covertly updated) which now says 6 quarts...I sometimes miss the old days with written manuals (so we'd have a paper trail...but screenshots and forum entries provide similar information). Your Bronco seems like an outlier, however...unless it has the early H stick? Can you take a pic of the symbol on the handle? My guess is that you have a stick intended for 6 quarts even on your 22 (it must have been an earlier built engine).
Yellow handle H stick. Part #FT4E-6750-BF D454A. Oil is showing right at the start of the twist on the stick. Exactly where it was the day I bought it.

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Merc4x4

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Owners manual on overfilling engine oil.
2022
https://www.ford.com/support/vehicle/bronco/2022/owner-manuals/

2022 has 2 html manuals with a break in build date of 6/20/22
Under Adding oil, they both say:
Note: Do not add oil further than the maximum mark. Oil levels above the maximum mark may cause engine damage.

Under Checking oil level, they both say:
Note: If oil levels are continuously noted above the maximum mark, schedule a visit to your authorized dealer.

They both have capacity of 5.7L (6qt)

2021
https://www.ford.com/support/vehicle/bronco/2021/owner-manuals/

Has same warnings about filling over dipstick max.
Lists capacity as 6.6L (still)


Perhaps the reason the SSM says factory fill is still 7.5qts is because that is what the factory filled them to, not because that is the correct amount. They can't go back in time and put the correct amount of oil in, so a technician should see that the factory filled the '21 and '22 2.7's to 7.5 qts.

If Ford put in the factory fill correction to Lima? it will take a while for engines being built now to get into Broncos. Maybe there is a Ford engine plant worker that can look for updated factory fill specs on the 2.7? Or maybe there will be a new factory fill spec for 23's.

My first Ford and this fiasco is disheartening. Seems like a lot of these issues are due to dysfunctional leadership (at many levels) and their 'solutions' could be done quicker with clearer language.
 

Razorbak86

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I'd rather have low oil (as long as the pump pickup is covered and there is no loss in oil pressure) than too much oil any day if the week. There are many cars on the road with oil levels that are way down on the stick or not even reading on the stick (because many half-wits rarely check their oil). Less oil (but enough oil to maintain pressure) will get dirtier faster, but the effects in the engine will not be immediately noticeable. If your truck had only 5 quarts in it there was probably at least several quarts in the pan/sump while running hence no damage.
I understand that perspective for a mostly on-road daily driver, but my use case is different, knowing the kind of pitch and roll angles that my Bronco sees routinely on local off-road trails in the Ozarks.

Remember this little gem posted on Bronco Nation last year?

New Bronco Engine Information
May 12, 2021
By Dusty Rhodes

Over the last week, Ford has released fuel economy and horsepower ratings for the 2021 Bronco. The results were an improvement over “preliminary specs.” The figures also show what we all expected: The Bronco is capable of going toe to toe with the Wrangler in both fuel economy and horsepower. And enthusiasts are finding the numbers comforting as well. With the all-new Bronco, I’ll nearly double both my horsepower and fuel economy compared to what I get from the three Gen 1 and Gen 2 Broncos in my garage.

The real story of these powertrains is not just horsepower and fuel economy performance, however, but the tweaks made to meet the demands of a credible off-road vehicle. The engineers at Ford inherited two engines that already met the grueling and comprehensive list of Ford truck durability standards –– the same two engines that have made the F150 the #1 selling vehicle for 44 years and Ranger a global success.

Angles That Will Make You Pucker

With a long list of additional off-road standards being added to the engineering requirements, one challenge that surfaced was keeping both the 2.3L and 2.7L engines properly lubricated in aggressive terrain. John Kilby, Engine Systems Engineer at Ford, told Bronco Nation that the rear oil sumps were upgraded, and the oil pans enlarged to deliver adequate pressure at a 45 degree downhill angle and a 30 degree side slope –– not bad. The larger pans mean the Bronco will hold seven quarts of oil (the Ranger uses six). This will ensure Bronco engines maintain standards under the demands of off-roading.


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To put those capabilities into perspective: For most beginner or novice off roaders, a 35-degree downhill slope or 20- or 25-degree side slope would be sufficient to cause the driver to pucker and passengers to reach for the grab handles.
And there is a new thread discussing this issue on a motor oil forum.
 
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cowman

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Speaking of Ford fook-ups... has anyone taken their Bronco in to get the front windshield recall repaired yet?
I believe there is a thread for this...
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