deep dive by 74weld on portals

[5GENIDN]

My concern is not the how it drives when new. It's the as time passes how the wear and tear effects the vehicle. Heavy suspension adds more force to the mounts and parts. Wearing out parts that are only replaceable not upgradable. That extra 20-40lbs oscillating for 25k miles is a massive amount of wear.

My interest in portals is figuring out weak point and addressing them.

Portal Modification List should include.
1) Welding the rear axle tubes
2) boxing the rear lower suspension mounts
3) boxing the rear axle link mounts
4) boxing front control arm mounts

Need to address anything that flexes as you going to put more leverage on it.

That is a good list!

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[Fordified1]

I suspect the Quin designed portals will have a very minimal amount of backlash and I believe they are dual idler, but that lash will grow as they wear and is not adjustable. If it’s a huge factor IDK. On side by sides no it’s not. Your brakes should be on the wheel side of the portal so that helps.

The unsprung weight issue will have to be addressed by experimenting with shock dampening, both rebound and compression. There will be a lot to learn in that respect. Dampening is always a compromise and a large amount of unsprung weight widens the area of compromise. In the high speed world unsprung weight is a HUGE factor because you’re trying to keep the tires planted as much as possible over bumps. Potholes, expansion joints and washboard surfaces having the most impact.

Portals hold a very small amount of lubricant, I’d really be surprised if they don’t get extremely hot at high speeds for a long duration.

 

[userdude]

I suspect the Quin designed portals will have a very minimal amount of backlash and I believe they are dual idler, but that lash will grow as they wear and is not adjustable. If it’s a huge factor IDK. On side by sides no it’s not. Your brakes should be on the wheel side of the portal so that helps.

The unsprung weight issue will have to be addressed by experimenting with shock dampening, both rebound and compression. There will be a lot to learn in that respect. Dampening is always a compromise and a large amount of unsprung weight widens the area of compromise. In the high speed world unsprung weight is a HUGE factor because you’re trying to keep the tires planted as much as possible over bumps. Potholes, expansion joints and washboard surfaces having the most impact.

Portals hold a very small amount of lubricant, I’d really be surprised if they don’t get extremely hot at high speeds for a long duration.

Not saying this answers anything definitively, but Quinn has spoken about the temperatures after driving on the highway within the portal. I think, but would have to look, that he said they didn't get over 200deg (I'm not savvy but he seemed to suggest this was a good temp). He's also said that on high performance crawling, they replace the gears every 1k miles, and they are recommending repacking at 100k for rec use. Where this ends up in practice, we'll have to see with time.

 

[Fordified1]

Not saying this answers anything definitively, but Quinn has spoken about the temperatures after driving on the highway within the portal. I think, but would have to look, that he said they didn't get over 200deg (I'm not savvy but he seemed to suggest this was a good temp). He's also said that on high performance crawling, they replace the gears every 1k miles, and they are recommending repacking at 100k for rec use. Where this ends up in practice, we'll have to see with time.

Quin is a hell of an engineer, so his gears must be a really good low-friction design. 200* isn’t bad at all especially with synthetic lubricants.

I drove our RZR on the roads all around Gatlinburg TN early this year, 45-55mph, but I didn’t think to check to see how hot the portals got. They didn’t get hot enough to blow a seal out (which is a thing because they’re not vented).

 

[5GENIDN]

I suspect the Quin designed portals will have a very minimal amount of backlash and I believe they are dual idler, but that lash will grow as they wear and is not adjustable. If it’s a huge factor IDK. On side by sides no it’s not. Your brakes should be on the wheel side of the portal so that helps.

The unsprung weight issue will have to be addressed by experimenting with shock dampening, both rebound and compression. There will be a lot to learn in that respect. Dampening is always a compromise and a large amount of unsprung weight widens the area of compromise. In the high speed world unsprung weight is a HUGE factor because you’re trying to keep the tires planted as much as possible over bumps. Potholes, expansion joints and washboard surfaces having the most impact.

Portals hold a very small amount of lubricant, I’d really be surprised if they don’t get extremely hot at high speeds for a long duration.

I believe it is 8 oz each.... and a test run through the Arizona desert (ambient 115) at highway speed I believe they got up to around 185 degrees at top over a couple hundred miles... So no... they do not get that hot. They have tested with temp stickers many times and what Quinn was saying is that this test was as hot as they ever got them.

 

[userdude]

Quin is a hell of an engineer, so his gears must be a really good low-friction design. 200* isn’t bad at all especially with synthetic lubricants.

I drove our RZR on the roads all around Gatlinburg TN early this year, 45-55mph, but I didn’t think to check to see how hot the portals got. They didn’t get hot enough to blow a seal out (which is a thing because they’re not vented).

If it helps, they are made by Spidertrax and it's the same gearset that's in the race portals. He's said that's intentional, because by not stepping them back to looser tolerances, he can resell to rec what he basically doesn't profit from on the million or so he spent developing for race (but can't sell enough of to make a business).

 

[Razorback]

Quite an interesting read. Love the data points vs just opinionated responses in many other threads. It's threads like this that help those of us trying to figure our way around. While I trust the likes of Quinn, exodus 4x4 and such, it's great to think of all the issues involved. I still get the vibe that Quinn is the Neil deGrasse Tyson of the offroad world...

 

[5GENIDN]

Quite an interesting read. Love the data points vs just opinionated responses in many other threads. It's threads like this that help those of us trying to figure our way around. While I trust the likes of Quinn, exodus 4x4 and such, it's great to think of all the issues involved. I still get the vibe that Quinn is the Neil deGrasse Tyson of the offroad world...

Yea... I like that analogy!

I used to teach a class in gear design at the University.... Quinn knows what he is talking about. I had actually chosen to go with Werewolf portals when comparing the Werewolf with the Tibus because of the gear design.... Then I Learned of Quinn... His design is the same as the Werewolf but I think his product is actually of higher quality. We had some discussions about bearings requirements for different Gears.... The Tibus will run hotter and the bearings have to account for some significant lateral loading that will then require extra strength in the box and the Bearings will be under considerably more stress so they will not last as long.

 

[Lcubed]

portal vs non portal 74weld content

 

[5GENIDN]

portal vs non portal 74weld content

I like the spotting and then when the portal trucks come the spotters just walk off...

 

[Bored]

I believe it is 8 oz each.... and a test run through the Arizona desert (ambient 115) at highway speed I believe they got up to around 185 degrees at top over a couple hundred miles... So no... they do not get that hot. They have tested with temp stickers many times and what Quinn was saying is that this test was as hot as they ever got them.

I have done the 3000 mile oil maintenance twice (both times early ahead of longer trips); I was told 300ml (that 300ml to 350ml is fine, above 350 it will burp it out) but had added 310ml in each housing both times, but I let them drain for almost an hour, until there is barely a drip every few minutes. One of the Toyota portal influencers did 10oz in a mustard bottle. We will be performing the maintenance often enough that I don't think anyone will have an issue.

Make sure whatever funnel you use is smaller than the fill port & having the oil warm helps.

 

[5GENIDN]

I have done the 3000 mile oil maintenance twice (both times early ahead of longer trips); I was told 300ml (that 300ml to 350ml is fine, above 350 it will burp it out) but had added 310ml in each housing both times, but I let them drain for almost an hour, until there is barely a drip every few minutes. One of the Toyota portal influencers did 10oz in a mustard bottle. We will be performing the maintenance often enough that I don't think anyone will have an issue.

Make sure whatever funnel you use is smaller than the fill port & having the oil warm helps.

With small ports like this I always like using a small pin (toothpick size) next to the funnel that way as the oil goes in the air has an escape and I do not get the burping on fill.... I know that is not the burping you are talking about... I get you there..... You do not want to fill the catch cans for the breathers.

So it is closer to 10 to 11 oz rather than 8.... I don't know, may break the bank. .. Thank you for the heads up...

 

[Lcubed]

width and height comparison w/ and w/o portals


from this comment over at youtube, sounds like Exodus
changed the R&P to 4.1 from the standard 4.7

"1.22 as a matter of fact. I forgot to mention in the video that we re-geared mine to 4.10 so the final drive ratio would be 5.0, and it’s perfect."

 

[Bored]

I have done the 3000 mile oil maintenance twice (both times early ahead of longer trips); I was told 300ml (that 300ml to 350ml is fine, above 350 it will burp it out) but had added 310ml in each housing both times, but I let them drain for almost an hour, until there is barely a drip every few minutes. One of the Toyota portal influencers did 10oz in a mustard bottle. We will be performing the maintenance often enough that I don't think anyone will have an issue.

Make sure whatever funnel you use is smaller than the fill port & having the oil warm helps.

Third drain and fill completed today. Magnet had a bit of superfine metal dust but less than the second time.

I found the funnel I used the last two times at Ace. It can still airlock if you set the hose all the way down on the fill port and open the flow all the way... at half open I didn't have any burp/overflow problems.

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