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mpeugeot

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Confused computer....?? Lol
So in other words, the software engineers did a shit job in designing the GOAT system.
The shop has already pulled stored codes for left rear wheel speed sensor, among other hardware related codes.
If it's got bad sensors, then yes, you have a reason to be disappointed to receive a new vehicle with defective parts.

However, if expect that every possible situation can be handled by the software on a new vehicle package in the first year of production, that is likely to end in disappointment every time. There will be conditions that exist that the engineers didn't consider and they can cause the computer to fault, the good news is that the software can be updated easily. So yes, I expect that the ECU will probably need some updates during the first year of adoption. No, we shouldn't be beta testers, but I don't think you complain like this when your phone needs a software update to function better.

A shit job on the software would be one where the computer didn't recover.
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tshaw2009

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I honestly have no idea why this guy turned on any GOAT modes to begin with. There was absolutely zero terrain here that would have justified a terrain software adjustment, a locker, or even 4WD for that matter (understanding that sometimes cameras don't do things any justice, this was not hard terrain). Guys these off-road terrain softwares (GOAT Modes) are meant for the nasty terrain, not the stray big rock, washout, or washboard on a loose gravel road. Please, please, please read those owner's manuals. Your wallet will thank you for it. With that being said, what this guy did should not have caused any issues since he was on loose gravel and driving at low speeds which is perfectly okay to do in 4WD even with a locker on. I just don't get why this guy thought he even had to use 4WD in the first place on this terrain.
 

fltechpilot

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I honestly have no idea why this guy turned on any GOAT modes to begin with. There was absolutely zero terrain here that would have justified a terrain software adjustment, a locker, or even 4WD for that matter (understanding that sometimes cameras don't do things any justice, this was not hard terrain). Guys these off-road terrain softwares (GOAT Modes) are meant for the nasty terrain, not the stray big rock, washout, or washboard on a loose gravel road. Please, please, please read those owner's manuals. Your wallet will thank you for it. With that being said, what this guy did should not have caused any issues since he was on loose gravel and driving at low speeds which is perfectly okay to do in 4WD even with a locker on. I just don't get why this guy thought he even had to use 4WD in the first place on this terrain.
If you watch the whole video you can see him start in 2 High and then start to get slippage and not be able to make it all the way up.
 

ilbastarge

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video is about owner observations with the usual comments you've seen numerous times .... watch it from about minute 17





Any opinions on this?
Any response from the video OP what the dealership said was wrong?
 

Mpatient1

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dgorsett

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If you watch the whole video you can see him start in 2 High and then start to get slippage and not be able to make it all the way up.
Right. So 3 wheels were stationary one was spinning and the ABS freaked out, locking out GOAT Modes. This situation happens all the time off road, I would hope the Goat would figure that out.
He said error report said LH rear ABS fault, probably the spinning one.
 

tshaw2009

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If you watch the whole video you can see him start in 2 High and then start to get slippage and not be able to make it all the way up.
Clearly because he has no earthly clue what the heck he's doing. The Bronco was more than capable of climbing a barely 2% grade incline of loose gravel road with a stray big rock to climb. Very rarely is the vehicle incapable of doing something but is almost always the driver. Just look at the dude that takes a Crown Victoria up Hell's Revenge at MOAB. The driver here may have been incapable but the machine was not.
 

BackcountryBirds

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Clearly because he has no earthly clue what the heck he's doing. The Bronco was more than capable of climbing a barely 2% grade incline of loose gravel road with a stray big rock to climb. Very rarely is the vehicle incapable of doing something but is almost always the driver. Just look at the dude that takes a Crown Victoria up Hell's Revenge at MOAB. The driver here may have been incapable but the machine was not.
There are multiple videos now of broncos slipping and putting wheels off the ground and needing 4x4 or lockers on moderate at best terrain (this video included). Could he have backed up, got some momentum and took a better line? Probably so, but there is nothing at all wrong with driving up a hill until you start slipping then engaging 4 wheel drive, lockers, etc as needed. Especially when testing out a new vehicle to learn it's capabilities.

To say the driver did anything wrong here is ridiculous (especially since not one person can clearly articulate what he did wrong per the operating manual). A little wheel slippage like this that is going to happen almost every time you offroad and should not cause a computer fault. There is so much goaltending on here. This bronco clearly did not perform as it should. The question is, was it a one off type deal or will this be repeatable and a common issue. I for one appreciate the OP sharing. Not sure why folks are so quick to blame anyone/thing while ignoring the most obvious and consistent problem: Ford manufacturing during this whole rollout process. Was it the driver's fault too that his bronco is missing half it's headliner?
 

tshaw2009

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There are multiple videos now of broncos slipping and putting wheels off the ground and needing 4x4 or lockers on moderate at best terrain (this video included). Could he have backed up, got some momentum and took a better line? Probably so, but there is nothing at all wrong with driving up a hill until you start slipping then engaging 4 wheel drive, lockers, etc as needed. Especially when testing out a new vehicle to learn it's capabilities.

To say the driver did anything wrong here is ridiculous (especially since not one person can clearly articulate what he did wrong per the operating manual). A little wheel slippage like this that is going to happen almost every time you offroad and should not cause a computer fault. There is so much goaltending on here. This bronco clearly did not perform as it should. The question is, was it a one off type deal or will this be repeatable and a common issue. I for one appreciate the OP sharing. Not sure why folks are so quick to blame anyone/thing while ignoring the most obvious and consistent problem: Ford manufacturing during this whole rollout process. Was it the driver's fault too that his bronco is missing half it's headliner?
If I remember right, this driver put the Bronco in Mud/Ruts whilst driving on a loose gravel road. The owners manual clearly states that Mud/Ruts is intended for deep mud, not loose gravel. The absolute most that would have been needed here, in the worst situation would have been 4H. Now I agree with you that if the Bronco is freaking out this easily, that does not bode well at all and Ford needs to fix it NOW. I still contend the driver was dumb. You're supposed to test capability on the terrain the vehicle needs the capability to overcome.
 

Lazerus

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If I remember right, this driver put the Bronco in Mud/Ruts whilst driving on a loose gravel road. The owners manual clearly states that Mud/Ruts is intended for deep mud, not loose gravel. The absolute most that would have been needed here, in the worst situation would have been 4H. Now I agree with you that if the Bronco is freaking out this easily, that does not bode well at all and Ford needs to fix it NOW. I still contend the driver was dumb. You're supposed to test capability on the terrain the vehicle needs the capability to overcome.
MUD/RUTS:
For off-road driving. This mode enhances vehicle performance to traverse muddy, rutted or uneven terrains. Four-wheel drive high is the default four-wheel drive mode. Four-wheel drive low is selectable in mud/rut mode.

No where does it say 'deep mud'. It had been raining hard and he was driving on a slippery, rutted road - the conditions the manual says it is for.
If the user is expected to switch modes the instant the terrain changes, the whole set up is worse then useless. There is, I'm sure, a good amount of overlap built into the different modes (unless it was designed by someone with zero wheeling knowledge). With luck, it was just a bad sensor (happens even on new stuff) and not a software design issue - but the stories of it happening at the pre-launch events has to give one pause.
And you're right, no amount of testing can replicate all the conditions consumers will put a vehicle in - no plan survives first contact with the enemy - most likely there will be some sets of conditions/sensor readings that the software has not been programed to deal with yet - sending it into a 'safe mode'. Enough occurrences will give the engineers the data needed for updates. It's simply a fact of life for new platform vehicles. Anyone who thought these would be perfect out of the gate is fooling themselves.
At least enough manual controls were available to keep him moving over the obstacle he was on.
 

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_bxt

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I honestly have no idea why this guy turned on any GOAT modes to begin with. There was absolutely zero terrain here that would have justified a terrain software adjustment, a locker, or even 4WD for that matter (understanding that sometimes cameras don't do things any justice, this was not hard terrain). Guys these off-road terrain softwares (GOAT Modes) are meant for the nasty terrain, not the stray big rock, washout, or washboard on a loose gravel road. Please, please, please read those owner's manuals. Your wallet will thank you for it. With that being said, what this guy did should not have caused any issues since he was on loose gravel and driving at low speeds which is perfectly okay to do in 4WD even with a locker on. I just don't get why this guy thought he even had to use 4WD in the first place on this terrain.
He was slipping in 2wd. GOAT modes are supposed to demystify off-road settings, they are not for only extreme situations, (like "It was getting hairy, so I pulled out my GOAT modes...")
 

tshaw2009

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MUD/RUTS:
For off-road driving. This mode enhances vehicle performance to traverse muddy, rutted or uneven terrains. Four-wheel drive high is the default four-wheel drive mode. Four-wheel drive low is selectable in mud/rut mode.

No where does it say 'deep mud'. It had been raining hard and he was driving on a slippery, rutted road - the conditions the manual says it is for.
If the user is expected to switch modes the instant the terrain changes, the whole set up is worse then useless. There is, I'm sure, a good amount of overlap built into the different modes (unless it was designed by someone with zero wheeling knowledge). With luck, it was just a bad sensor (happens even on new stuff) and not a software design issue - but the stories of it happening at the pre-launch events has to give one pause.
And you're right, no amount of testing can replicate all the conditions consumers will put a vehicle in - no plan survives first contact with the enemy - most likely there will be some sets of conditions/sensor readings that the software has not been programed to deal with yet - sending it into a 'safe mode'. Enough occurrences will give the engineers the data needed for updates. It's simply a fact of life for new platform vehicles. Anyone who thought these would be perfect out of the gate is fooling themselves.
At least enough manual controls were available to keep him moving over the obstacle he was on.
Just saying but when you read the words "muddy, rutted, or uneven terrains", do you think of the puddle you played in as a kid or mud the likes of which would need the Bronco to get through? This is something you would use Mud/Ruts for:
Ford Bronco Disconcerting video - Broken GOAT mode during off roading? cdf29b6a9d46e35bf37ba3e46e46bccd

This is why Terrain modes were a bad idea for the 1st iteration. The more tech you add, the more that can break. 4H, 4L, and front and rear lockers would have been enough to have a super capable machine.
 

Virtual-Chris

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The number of assholes in this thread is very disappointing. I thought this was a good community, but there’s some really bad apples here.

This could easily happen to any of us. It’s not the driver. It’s the vehicle.
 

_bxt

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If I remember right, this driver put the Bronco in Mud/Ruts whilst driving on a loose gravel road. The owners manual clearly states that Mud/Ruts is intended for deep mud, not loose gravel. The absolute most that would have been needed here, in the worst situation would have been 4H. Now I agree with you that if the Bronco is freaking out this easily, that does not bode well at all and Ford needs to fix it NOW. I still contend the driver was dumb. You're supposed to test capability on the terrain the vehicle needs the capability to overcome.
I think you are mistaken. This guy is easy going, he's not dumb, he's not a rookie, he's coming from a real 4wd vehicle, and clearly all is not well with the production of vehicles we ordered. We had high hopes, trust me, I get it. But when it's delivered partially assembled, it's not passing the smell test. When error lights persist, from not much off-roading, we need to not shoot the messenger here.
 

85_Ranger4x4

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The number of assholes in this thread is very disappointing. I thought this was a good community, but there’s some really bad apples here.

This could easily happen to any of us. It’s not the driver. It’s the vehicle.
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