Does the roof have an inherent design/structural issue?

[2021BroncoFE]

This has been touched on a bit in the big thread about the Painted Modular Top reservation change, but it seems like a big issue: did Ford screw up by designing the Bronco without a center cross bar for the roof panels? They made a big deal about not having one overhead being an advantage over the Wrangler, but it’s always been in the back of my mind that the connection point between the two front panels and the larger backseat panel (on the 4 door) might cause a problem, like flexing a bit when you fasten them together for example.

This problem would be decreased with a lighter top, like the MIC, but a heavier, more substantial top would need more support, it seems.

It’s hard to believe that there’s a materials problem limiting production, which would be the most innocent explanation. Ford has incredible manufacturing capability—couldn’t they build 10,000 tops quickly if necessary? I’m really concerned that the problem is waterproofing and flex with the roof panels, and I think this problem could even exist with the MIC tops. Hope someone out there better informed and more engineering-inclined can easy my mind.

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[Carolina Jim]

if the top is in need of redesign, forget Ford's statement on MY availability & just consult your Ouija Board.

Will be interesting to see how water integrity is treated in warranty statements.

 

[Chrism81]

This has been touched on a bit in the big thread about the Painted Modular Top reservation change, but it seems like a big issue: did Ford screw up by designing the Bronco without a center cross bar for the roof panels? They made a big deal about not having one overhead being an advantage over the Wrangler, but it’s always been in the back of my mind that the connection point between the two front panels and the larger backseat panel (on the 4 door) might cause a problem, like flexing a bit when you fasten them together for example.

This problem would be decreased with a lighter top, like the MIC, but a heavier, more substantial top would need more support, it seems.

It’s hard to believe that there’s a materials problem limiting production, which would be the most innocent explanation. Ford has incredible manufacturing capability—couldn’t they build 10,000 tops quickly if necessary? I’m really concerned that the problem is waterproofing and flex with the roof panels, and I think this problem could even exist with the MIC tops. Hope someone out there better informed and more engineering-inclined can easy my mind.

Ford is using a different type of high strength steel for those reasons. Having no center cross bar shouldn't be a problem

 

[5280Bronco]

Ford also doesn't make the tops, so they can't just fire up some factory and start spitting them out. Many of these issues are with the top mfg, and ford has to deal with what they are being given imo.

 

[Rubisquatch]

This should not be a problem (lack of center crossbeam) as the tops do not sit/put weight on the crossbeams. The weight is primary held by sitting on the body (and held there with screws above the windshield and the screw mounts in the rear).

The real issue is the top manufacturer probably was awarded the bid for the job late (fords fault in late decision) and is playing catch-up (partly due to covid) trying to get a new plant up and running.

 

[WuNgUn]

From the image showing the different tops, it looks like an engineering change possibly...
Also, looking at the wording of the email, Ford built up too much pre-inventory of the MIC top and fucked up the estimated popularity of the mod and dual tops. Possibly also the popularity of the WT.

 

[GrandGrady]

No. It is just a materials problem.

Ford doesn't build the tops, they get them from a supplier. I'm sure they weren't planning to get as many orders with painted tops as they received (it was already late availability). So they decided to just push it back to 22.

Don't get yourself worked up. Problems with the actual engineering of the top would have been solved long before now.

*Edit: the tops are made by Webasto who built an entirely new plant that is just getting going.*

 

[lobbs611]

The delay on tops is because COVID impacted the schedule of getting the new Webasto plant making them built. There was an article posted about it yesterday confirming the rumors from a few months ago.

It's not some grand conspiracy theory or any boogie man in the design at this point. The plant is ready to go but they are now behind schedule for the launch so Ford made the decision to prioritize the MIC tops over the painted ones for MY21.

 

[Mattwings]

Tops have a host of engineering challenges. Water seal, noise, resonance, buffeting, particularly with the three pieces and various configurations and the frameless windows. I am sure Covid made it all more complicated, but it is very likely that ongoing changes have created downstream issues and they are trying to balance all of those issues. I fully expect the top and seal won't be perfect. Jeeps have been around forever and they struggle with hard top noise and seals. Part of the "charm" of removable tops, probably making the launch that much more complicated.

 

[Bronc-O]

Ford also doesn't make the tops, so they can't just fire up some factory and start spitting them out. Many of these issues are with the top mfg, and ford has to deal with what they are being given imo.

Webasto built a factory just for this product and another for FCA. They've been doing this stuff for decades and should have had this sorted long ago.

 

[5280Bronco]

Webasto built a factory just for this product and another for FCA. They've been doing this stuff for decades and should have had this sorted long ago.

No argument here on that, i agree. I'm just saying ford can't just start making tops themselves to fix the issue, it's on Webasto.

 

[MaverickMan]

Would be messed up if the hard tops bowed over time and held a pool of water in the middle, that didnt start dripping to you started the engine and vibrated it. Im thinking of the old bikini top bath my cjs used to give me. Time will tell. I hope not I like the cage design.

 

[indio22]

Tops have a host of engineering challenges. Water seal, noise, resonance, buffeting, particularly with the three pieces and various configurations and the frameless windows. I am sure Covid made it all more complicated, but it is very likely that ongoing changes have created downstream issues and they are trying to balance all of those issues. I fully expect the top and seal won't be perfect. Jeeps have been around forever and they struggle with hard top noise and seals. Part of the "charm" of removable tops, probably making the launch that much more complicated.

This. Based on Jeep experience, I predicted way back when, the #1 post-purchase customer complaint Ford will deal with, are top related issues. For soft/hard tops, customers complaining about wind, noise, water leaks, etc. Get ready for it ... "I didn't spend 60k on a vehicle to hear flapping, have water leaks, etc." Particular from first time removable top 4x4 buyers. Tops are already proving a major headache for Ford and will continue after purchase. Especially designing new tops from scratch compared to Jeep, Ford had it's work cut out.

 

[indio22]

This has been touched on a bit in the big thread about the Painted Modular Top reservation change, but it seems like a big issue: did Ford screw up by designing the Bronco without a center cross bar for the roof panels? They made a big deal about not having one overhead being an advantage over the Wrangler, but it’s always been in the back of my mind that the connection point between the two front panels and the larger backseat panel (on the 4 door) might cause a problem, like flexing a bit when you fasten them together for example.

This problem would be decreased with a lighter top, like the MIC, but a heavier, more substantial top would need more support, it seems.

It’s hard to believe that there’s a materials problem limiting production, which would be the most innocent explanation. Ford has incredible manufacturing capability—couldn’t they build 10,000 tops quickly if necessary? I’m really concerned that the problem is waterproofing and flex with the roof panels, and I think this problem could even exist with the MIC tops. Hope someone out there better informed and more engineering-inclined can easy my mind.

You bring up a good point, and I had similar concern about lack of a center roll bar on the Bronco. Why? Because my CJ-7 had a rubber bumper on the top of the center rollbar, that helped support and dampen vibration and movement of the hardtop. And the Bronco will not have that option.

But ... I asked on the big thread, if the new Wrangler JLs have any similar contact/support between the center roll bar and hardtop, and I think it was forum member ZachDanger who informed me there is no contact. For that reason, I don't think it's necessary to have a center roll bar supporting the hardtop on the new Bronco, or leastways on current Wranglers Jeep doesn't need it.

 

[NotApplicable]

My Jeep’s top does not use the center crossmember for support, so this is debunked

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