Electric Hummer teaser

[CJay]

I really like the Rivian, but I'd like to know how much the range drops off when off road.
It's not an off road vehicle, but a favorite video of mine is TFLTruck off roading a Tesla X. As I recall they claimed their range dropped off nearly as much as when towing with it, which I believe was something like a 60% drop.

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[OX1]

The all electric aspect of it brings my interest down to about zero

Heavy towing range in subfreezing temps will be very limited.
And if the battery pack is big enough that it is not, charging will be
way too long, even at the superfast charging rates today.
Now if it's just a commuter and you didn't really need a pickup,
have at it I guess.

 

[OX1]

They realize that nobody likes american cars anyways. Why the actual hell would you EVER buy a Fusion over a Camry. You'd honestly have to be an idiot.

1. https://www.quora.com/Why-does-Toyota-make-ugly-cars
2. Tune only (on the right)

3. Sway bars and summer tires.

4. AWD, not just for snow, system is flawless in the rain too (and even dry, you get over 400 ft-lbs, it's useful,
not that any Camry ever had the need).
5. Engine designed for 1/2 ton durability. If ever need replacement, millions will be in yards.
6. Toyota's are BORING!!!!!!!! appliances........

 

[Jake_zx2]

Getting rid of passenger cars and investing in EV's is a HUGE gamble but if it pays off will put Ford way ahead of the pack.

It is a huge gamble, and it COULD'VE paid off if the execution weren't so botched. Rather than killing off cars, perhaps they should've realized their shortcomings that had their foreign competitors beating them and addressed the issues. They could've invested in EV passenger cars (you know, like the insanely successful Tesla Model 3 and S) and had a leg up on their foreign competitors. And they SURE AS HELL could've passed on calling their electric crossover a fucking Mustang

They realize that nobody likes american cars anyways. Why the actual hell would you EVER buy a Fusion over a Camry. You'd honestly have to be an idiot.

I mean, as of 2019, about 166,000 people liked the American Fusion more than some foreign competitors, and that's even after the platform has gone stale with its age. Maybe if Ford had invested in keeping their sedans up to date (looking at you, Taurus) and offered something that the foreign competitors couldn't (low prices, manual offerings, excitement, full EV options), then they could've sold well. Hell, Ford let the industry with its compact cars (Focus and Fiesta) and if they wouldn't have made the questionable-at-best decision to put a crappy DCT in them, then perhaps they could've sold even more and wouldn't be facing public backlash for it right now. But alienating a whole segment of their customers and stabbing the enthusiasts in the back is not a good way to keep your company afloat

 

[Nickp]

It won't, you're being naive

Well then Ford is fucked so y’all better get your Bronco in the first model year or two.

2. Tune only (on the right)

The fusion sport is awesome don’t get me wrong. They also probably sold maybe a few thousand of them. Making 5 bazillion niche sedan trims that they sell 5 of is not going to help Ford start selling sedans. The American market doesn’t like sedans anymore, and even the aforementioned Camry is losing sales by the fuckload to the RAV4.

And they SURE AS HELL could've passed on calling their electric crossover a fucking Mustang

I honestly don’t think they had a choice. The mustang has been dropping in sales and I don’t see that changing anytime soon. Sports cars as a whole are starting to go extinct. Don’t believe me? 2/3 cars Porsche sold last year was an SUV. Ford has to adapt, and no, a refreshed mustang is not going to get them back to selling 160,000+ units a year. Those days are gone forever.

I mean, as of 2019, about 166,000 people liked the American Fusion more than some foreign competitors, and that's even after the platform has gone stale with its age.

“People” don’t like the fusion as of the past couple of years. Fleet managers do because Ford practically gave them away. 2 very different things.

Maybe if Ford had invested in keeping their sedans up to date (looking at you, Taurus) and offered something that the foreign competitors couldn't (low prices, manual offerings, excitement, full EV options), then they could've sold well. Hell, Ford let the industry with its compact cars (Focus and Fiesta) and if they wouldn't have made the questionable-at-best decision to put a crappy DCT in them, then perhaps they could've sold even more and wouldn't be facing public backlash for it right now. But alienating a whole segment of their customers and stabbing the enthusiasts in the back is not a good way to keep your company afloat

I won’t deny that ford made huge mistakes with the Focus and Fiesta. But what’s done is done and reviving those nameplates is a non-starter.

Offering a manual is going to save their sedans?? LOL..

See this is the problem with “car enthusiasts” they don’t realize that car companies are businesses and that 90% of car sales are not to enthusiasts. Ford knows their strengths: they make fucking amazing SUV’s and Trucks. And they’re profitable. So they cut the fat, and they’re betting that electrification is going to make SUV’s and trucks even more popular since the one major problem with big vehicles is being resolved: gas mileage.

As for prices? My dad made an excellent point. They literally can’t compete with Tesla when it comes to cheaper electric vehicles: because of unions. That is being insanely overlooked as a reason for Tesla’s meteoric rise IMO.

 

[Jake_zx2]

I honestly don’t think they had a choice. The mustang has been dropping in sales and I don’t see that changing anytime soon. Sports cars as a whole are starting to go extinct. Don’t believe me? 2/3 cars Porsche sold last year was an SUV. Ford has to adapt, and no, a refreshed mustang is not going to get them back to selling 160,000+ units a year. Those days are gone forever.

Then let it die. I'd rather it die a legend than see it live to become a bastardized, diluted blob of what it once was. But all that this decision is going to do is force the REAL Mustang to die even faster

Offering a manual is going to save their sedans?? LOL..

That, in addition to other improvements, can open up their audience and gain them more sales. Every little bit counts

See this is the problem with “car enthusiasts” they don’t realize that car companies are businesses and that 90% of car sales are not to enthusiasts. Ford knows their strengths: they make fucking amazing SUV’s and Trucks. And they’re profitable. So they cut the fat, and they’re betting that electrification is going to make SUV’s and trucks even more popular since the one major problem with big vehicles is being resolved: gas mileage..

I can understand this TO A POINT. For the people expecting extreme race cars or all out rock crawlers from factory, I understand that Ford is in the business of making money, and that's not the way to do it. But you STILL have to appeal to enthusiasts on a broad scale and keep them happy, because even though they only represent 10% of the sales, they most likely influence half of the other 90% and are the ones buying multiple vehicles from the company and investing in the company on wall street. They don't have to go out of their way and blow billions of dollars on something that'll never see a return on investment (cough cough Ford GT), but just give us the basics... vehicles that are relatively fun to drive, manual offerings, and so on are things that not only appeal to the enthusiast, but can also appeal to the general consumer and be a deciding factor in buying one car over another

As for prices? My dad made an excellent point. They literally can’t compete with Tesla when it comes to cheaper electric vehicles: because of unions. That is being insanely overlooked as a reason for Tesla’s meteoric rise IMO.

While this is true, Tesla isn't the only one they have to compete with. I feel Tesla's bubble is getting ready to burst, since they haven't yet been able to deliver on the Model Y, Cybertruck is likely going to flop, they're behind on the Roadster, quality issues are starting to become more and more common, and maintenance is starting to become a burden. That is where the mainstream manufacturers will be able to make up lost ground. As long as Ford can stay cheaper than its Foreign competitors and gets in the game early enough and strong enough, they should be able to build a reputation there. But not if they have pissed off car enthusiasts telling everyone they know not to buy Fords (I know ever since the Mach E situation, I've convinced 3 people to buy new Accords and Camrys that probably would've bought Fusions if I had told them to)

 

[Nickp]

Then let it die. I'd rather it die a legend than see it live to become a bastardized, diluted blob of what it once was. But all that this decision is going to do is force the REAL Mustang to die even faster

The death of the mustang has zero relation to the Mach E, and Ford has repeatedly said they will never discontinue the mustang coupe. It may change, become more exclusive, etc but the mustang will continue to exist for a long time. And as for letting it die, that would be suicide. Ford has far to much brand equity in the mustang name to let it wither away. I know all the boomers get assblasted that an SUV can be a mustang, but that’s the future. The world is changing rapidly and it’s adapt or die. See: Mid-engine corvette, Lamborghini Urus, etc.

That, in addition to other improvements, can open up their audience and gain them more sales. Every little bit counts

Offering a manual transmission does not gain them any sales. A surprising statistic: full BEV’s now outsell manual transmission vehicles. The effort and money needed to develop a 6MT, for a car that they decided wasn’t worth building in the first place, wasn’t worth it. Remember how the fusion did have a manual for a year or two? I’m sure Ford had a HUGE take rate for that which is why it was discontinued. Yup that sounds right. Oh wait,

I can understand this TO A POINT. For the people expecting extreme race cars or all out rock crawlers from factory, I understand that Ford is in the business of making money, and that's not the way to do it. But you STILL have to appeal to enthusiasts on a broad scale and keep them happy, because even though they only represent 10% of the sales, they most likely influence half of the other 90% and are the ones buying multiple vehicles from the company and investing in the company on wall street. They don't have to go out of their way and blow billions of dollars on something that'll never see a return on investment (cough cough Ford GT), but just give us the basics... vehicles that are relatively fun to drive, manual offerings, and so on are things that not only appeal to the enthusiast, but can also appeal to the general consumer and be a deciding factor in buying one car over another

And I don’t see where ford has given up on enthusiast vehicles in any way. Brand new GT500, Bronco, next gen raptor, ST explorer and Edge. Ford is absolutely appealing to enthusiasts. Enthusiast sedans weren’t profitable and nobody is buying them because enthusiasts want shit used from the factory. Guess what? Raptor buyers, bronco buyers, and Explorer ST buyers are willing to buy new. People that want a diesel manual wagon are never going to take that depreciation hit in a trillion years. So they go extinct.

While this is true, Tesla isn't the only one they have to compete with. I feel Tesla's bubble is getting ready to burst, since they haven't yet been able to deliver on the Model Y, Cybertruck is likely going to flop, they're behind on the Roadster, quality issues are starting to become more and more common, and maintenance is starting to become a burden. That is where the mainstream manufacturers will be able to make up lost ground. As long as Ford can stay cheaper than its Foreign competitors and gets in the game early enough and strong enough, they should be able to build a reputation there. But not if they have pissed off car enthusiasts telling everyone they know not to buy Fords (I know ever since the Mach E situation, I've convinced 3 people to buy new Accords and Camrys that probably would've bought Fusions if I had told them to)

I would love to see your Tesla short position. How’s that going for you?

People have doubted $TSLA since the roadster and have gotten burned along the way. Ford and GM have evidently realized this hence their renewed focus on EV’s. Tesla is going to sell the absolute shit out of the model Y and they’re going to have to play catch up. And guess what? Model Y is coming 6 damn months ahead of schedule. Unheard of. Cybertruck, people have been making fun of it but it’s going to be a huge disrupter to the market. If you truly are that convinced I’d like to see you put some mustard behind your conviction and open a Tesla short position. It’s worked so well for so many people!

 

[JimmyDean]

The death of the mustang has zero relation to the Mach E, and Ford has repeatedly said they will never discontinue the mustang coupe. It may change, become more exclusive, etc but the mustang will continue to exist for a long time. And as for letting it die, that would be suicide. Ford has far to much brand equity in the mustang name to let it wither away. I know all the boomers get assblasted that an SUV can be a mustang, but that’s the future. The world is changing rapidly and it’s adapt or die. See: Mid-engine corvette, Lamborghini Urus, etc.




Offering a manual transmission does not gain them any sales. A surprising statistic: full BEV’s now outsell manual transmission vehicles. The effort and money needed to develop a 6MT, for a car that they decided wasn’t worth building in the first place, wasn’t worth it. Remember how the fusion did have a manual for a year or two? I’m sure Ford had a HUGE take rate for that which is why it was discontinued. Yup that sounds right. Oh wait,


And I don’t see where ford has given up on enthusiast vehicles in any way. Brand new GT500, Bronco, next gen raptor, ST explorer and Edge. Ford is absolutely appealing to enthusiasts. Enthusiast sedans weren’t profitable and nobody is buying them because enthusiasts want shit used from the factory. Guess what? Raptor buyers, bronco buyers, and Explorer ST buyers are willing to buy new. People that want a diesel manual wagon are never going to take that depreciation hit in a trillion years. So they go extinct.



I would love to see your Tesla short position. How’s that going for you?

People have doubted $TSLA since the roadster and have gotten burned along the way. Ford and GM have evidently realized this hence their renewed focus on EV’s. Tesla is going to sell the absolute shit out of the model Y and they’re going to have to play catch up. And guess what? Model Y is coming 6 damn months ahead of schedule. Unheard of. Cybertruck, people have been making fun of it but it’s going to be a huge disrupter to the market. If you truly are that convinced I’d like to see you put some mustard behind your conviction and open a Tesla short position. It’s worked so well for so many people!

nickP, I agree with nearly everything you said, except about Tesla. tesla stock is being held up solely by hopes, dreams, and unicorn farts. Once other players, big players, fully enter the market I would fully expect to see Tesla stock start to drop like a rock. which may be as early as late this year with the Ford ECUV. But it will probably take a EV sedan and sporty EV coupe to really do it that is reasonably affordable. Which will happen when the S650 comes out, as that is almost guaranteed to have a full EV option. Tesla is overhyped the same way that so many tech companies have been, estimated to be worth billions, some even sold for billions in buyouts or IPOs, and then quickly flopped once anyone tried to actually MAKE money with them. I am happy that Tesla is there at least, they are making the big companies stand up and take notice, they are bringing out innovation and showing that there is a feasibility to EVs, and so we will begin to see more of them from the large manufacturer's. and Tesla may stay on as a Niche company, but I seriously doubt that it will have any long term lasting global market sales.

 

[Nickp]

Totally reasonable take. I disagree, but I do get where you’re coming from. I think that “Tesla” has become the “Kleenex” of electric cars and they are probably going to continue growing. I think in the next 15-20 years we will probably see GM and Ford merge and Tesla will grow to become the 3rd of the “big 3”. Only time will tell though.

 

[JimmyDean]

Totally reasonable take. I disagree, but I do get where you’re coming from. I think that “Tesla” has become the “Kleenex” of electric cars and they are probably going to continue growing. I think in the next 15-20 years we will probably see GM and Ford merge and Tesla will grow to become the 3rd of the “big 3”. Only time will tell though.

Nah, Tesla is going to be a Myspace, or Atari.

 

[frinesi2]

So a couple comments:

1. The Cayenne allowed the 911 to live.

2. There is no profit margin in domestic sedans.

3. Tesla will die when Harley Davidson dies.

 

[Nickp]

So a couple comments:

1. The Cayenne allowed the 911 to live.

2. There is no profit margin in domestic sedans.

3. Tesla will die when Harley Davidson dies.

I feel like Harley Davidson is on it‘s death throes right now... is Tesla dying this week

 

[frinesi2]

I feel like Harley Davidson is on it‘s death throes right now... is Tesla dying this week

People have been predicting HD's death for decades, and yet ...

 

[JimmyDean]

So a couple comments:

1. The Cayenne allowed the 911 to live.

2. There is no profit margin in domestic sedans.

3. Tesla will die when Harley Davidson dies.

I didn't say Tesla would die....Myspace isn't dead, it's still around....and Atari has a nostalgic following, I think Tesla will end up more like that, a boutique manufacturer, popular with certain enthusiasts, but not main stream.

 

[frinesi2]

I didn't say Tesla would die....Myspace isn't dead, it's still around....and Atari has a nostalgic following, I think Tesla will end up more like that, a boutique manufacturer, popular with certain enthusiasts, but not main stream.

So like Harley Davidson lol.

I see your point, but, despite all of their grandiosity and hype, they still have the top powertrain and autonomy tech that will probably be bought up by another company once Elon kicks the bucket. Who knows.

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