Ford CEO Jim Farley Confirms ICE Future for the Bronco and Mustang

[NotApplicable]

TBH my Bronco will likely be replaced by an EV SUV with >10” of ground clearance, >300mi EPA range, <$80k MSRP, >=2 motors in the next few years as they become available. I don’t care if Ford doesn’t offer such a product, because others will. So probably an R1S.

All new ICE vehicles have become just as complex electronically as EVs, and farrrrr more complex mechanically. More failure points during service life, more failure points during manufacturing. Just look at the 2.7 saga. I’m speaking from experience unlike many in this thread. I’ve owned 2 Teslas (MY2018 & MY2020), a 4Runner (MY2019), a Tacoma (MY2016), etc. all within the last 7 years.

For me, EV ownership experience blows ICE out of the water, and don’t even get me started on the legacy dealership model experience.

No one here knows how long the demise of the ICE will take, so debating it in this thread is stupid, just like the 500 threads that came before this one. But many major manufacturers are already killing their ICE development teams, and many more are only just beginning to make massive investments in the EV space. It’s coming.

And, everyone should be excited about EVs or some amount of electrification. Remember natural aspiration? Port injection? If fully ICE new consumer vehicles are still widely available in 10 years I shudder to think what their powertrains will look like. 0.125-liter , quintuple-turbocharged, ultra-direct injected Frankenstein spaghetti monsters that last 15k miles before exploding and sound like amplified mosquitos? No one here seems to be admitting it, but ICE has been over the hill on its way toward death for years. The ICE heyday is long gone, and any ICE you get today is a massive compromise.

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[BodieMonster]

While I don’t own an EV yet, I’m sure I will within 3 - 4 years. They are getting significantly better YoY, especially around range (500 miles is not far off), and charge times. The instant torque, handling and extra secure storage space (like what you see in Rivians and the new Lightning), are all fantastic features.

While I still want an ICE Bronco given what I want to use it for, adding an EV as a daily driver would be awesome so this direction from Ford makes a ton of sense.

 

[pfd799]

I think PHEVs will be the future for EVs in the US, at least in the next decade or so. Much of the population lives in urban areas and can make good use of the EV function while not having “range anxiety” for longer trips. I live in a densely populated area and can charge at work, my Wrangler 4xe has been fantastic as I drive almost entirely on battery with ease while having the ICE Powertrain for the occasional longer trip

 

[jdbronc]

There’s no doubt the EV wave is coming whether people like it or not. The latest infrastructure bill looks to heavily improve on our grids so they can support more cars. It’s not going to be today, or tomorrow, but 10 years? I see there being an incredible amount of EVs on the road. Sales of EVs increased by 83% globally last year. Up 168% from 2019. That’s a massive number and sure they’re a small share of the market overall currently but the rate they’re increasing is higher than any ICE.

Ford is far from “losing” the EV race. The Mustang Mach-E (sorry for triggering anyone who hates the name lol) is a very enticing product with good cargo room, available, AWD, and good range. Plus there’s plenty of power offered from the GT trim. And they’re also coming out with a proper EV pickup and are going to be the first legacy manufacturer to do so. So not sure how that means they’re “losing.”

Unfortunately you are right. Ford will be a big player in the EV race. I meant they are losing in understanding their customer. I'm sure most people will buy their new EV off the lot in a few years and be perfectly happy, but right now there is a large group of Bronco reservation holders who reserved vehicles and got shit on by Ford. That says more to me than the quality or quantity of any vehicle they can produce in the future.

 

[ROKBRNC]

@sshurts My post was not referring to costs for the complexes but for the additional infrastructure required to support an increased load on the electrical utility. The NEC now has sections for EV charging but it wasn't so years ago. Load calcs did not consider EV charging at commercial or residential locations. Multi family dwelling load calculations are used to size things such as transformers, Service conductors, etc. I'm sure that most done in the past were not sized with the thought of having 200 + EV's charging overnight and adding additional load to the service conductors, transformers and disconnects. You can only add so many 30 amp circuits before things get overloaded if it was never part of the original calculation. That's the part of the puzzle that few people are talking about when pushing EV's. Carry that back to the substations providing the juice and the puzzle grows larger.
Another situation would be fleet vehicles and or personal work related company vehicles. I have a gas card right now so it's easy. I can recharge at a fueling station with an EV on a card and that's easy as well. What happens when I charge my company vehicle at home because I couldn't get to a roadside fueling station? Does my employer pay an itemized portion of my energy bill? Do they do that same thing for the other 80 employees? It can get tricky and it's all just talking points that need to be considered.

You’re asking a lot of the same talking points that I have.

As previously stated, I don’t like nor dislike EV technology…however I do live in rural CA, there are no charging stations in our area which means it would be up to me to provide a charging station at home and with current PGE rates which are 4x higher than the national average, and going higher even on solar customers which we are…who’s paying my additional (best guess) $500 monthly electric bill and/or even if I went down this road, how would I even expect to be able to charge an EV when PGE routinely shuts off power for 2-3 days at a time or longer. The Lightning is appealing since I could use it to power our home during times of extended power outages, but how long can it do that and how do you recharge once it’s batteries have been depleted I get the speed, torque, fun to drive aspect of EV’s but there are still way too many unanswered questions before I can see one being practical for my needs.

 

[Sergeant Gearhead]

I thought Ford was ditching internal combustion by 2040. They signed a pledge for it a while back.

https://fordauthority.com/2021/11/ford-signs-pledge-to-phase-out-fossil-fuel-vehicles-by-2040/

 

[Garbone]

You’re asking a lot of the same talking points that I have.

As previously stated, I don’t like nor dislike EV technology…however I do live in rural CA, there are no charging stations in our area which means it would be up to me to provide a charging station at home and with current PGE rates which are 4x higher than the national average, and going higher even on solar customers which we are…who’s paying my additional (best guess) $500 monthly electric bill and/or even if I went down this road, how would I even expect to be able to charge an EV when PGE routinely shuts off power for 2-3 days at a time or longer. The Lightning is appealing since I could use it to power our home during times of extended power outages, but how long can it do that and how do you recharge once it’s batteries have been depleted I get the speed, torque, fun to drive aspect of EV’s but there are still way too many unanswered questions before I can see one being practical for my needs.

That place is a horror story.

 

[BroncoBuckaroo]

Probably true but nice to see a commitment to ICE still unlike GM

Plug in electric vehicles still get the vast vast majority of power in the USA from Coal, natural Gas and Nuke power...they does very little to help the environment. Actually the battery packs are very toxic..I can remember when it was a huge problem just to dump one tiny battery in the trash..magically those warnings are gone. The rare elements used to make those batteries come from basically child labor in Africa or whatever labor China wants to use.

The future is hydrogen..specifically solid state hydrogen and with ICE engines.

Japan as a country is going completely to hydrogen ..no plug-in electric. Toyota and Yamaha are developing some great internal combustion hydrogen ICE engines. Toyota’s current model The Mirai, achieved an unprecedented 845 miles driven on a single, five-minute complete fill of hydrogen during a roundtrip tour of Southern California as it set the record. ( fuel cell)



you won’t be getting your hydrogen from a station like gas or plugging in to charge for 45min, you will simply place a CD like disk into a laser player which will power your ICE engine or an electric fuel cell car.

https://plasmakinetics.com/in-the-media

Plasma Kinetics is working with Toyota and VW to make this happen.

I have 90% owned Ford’s but won’t be doing plug-in ..,I’ll move to hydrogen..hopefully hydrogen powered ICE rather than hydrogen powered fuel cell.

 

[BroncoBuckaroo]

TBH my Bronco will likely be replaced by an EV SUV with >10” of ground clearance, >300mi EPA range, <$80k MSRP, >=2 motors in the next few years as they become available. I don’t care if Ford doesn’t offer such a product, because others will. So probably an R1S.

All new ICE vehicles have become just as complex electronically as EVs, and farrrrr more complex mechanically. More failure points during service life, more failure points during manufacturing. Just look at the 2.7 saga. I’m speaking from experience unlike many in this thread. I’ve owned 2 Teslas (MY2018 & MY2020), a 4Runner (MY2019), a Tacoma (MY2016), etc. all within the last 7 years.

For me, EV ownership experience blows ICE out of the water, and don’t even get me started on the legacy dealership model experience.

No one here knows how long the demise of the ICE will take, so debating it in this thread is stupid, just like the 500 threads that came before this one. But many major manufacturers are already killing their ICE development teams, and many more are only just beginning to make massive investments in the EV space. It’s coming.

And, everyone should be excited about EVs or some amount of electrification. Remember natural aspiration? Port injection? If fully ICE new consumer vehicles are still widely available in 10 years I shudder to think what their powertrains will look like. 0.125-liter , quintuple-turbocharged, ultra-direct injected Frankenstein spaghetti monsters that last 15k miles before exploding and sound like amplified mosquitos? No one here seems to be admitting it, but ICE has been over the hill on its way toward death for years. The ICE heyday is long gone, and any ICE you get today is a massive compromise.

plug-in electric is wacky and there is absolutely not enough infrastructure if only 9% of the current automobiles on the road convert to electric plug in.. doesn’t matter if they have super batteries ..the power to generate is not there..but hey you can dream

 

[sshurts]

How will most apartment complex's handle charging all tenants cars every night? Up the service amperage, then up the utilities to handle the extra loads? I don't buy it until I see the utility companies dumping money into the infrastructure to support 80% or greater ownership of EV's.

I guess the point isn't that ALL apartment complex's will handle it. Maybe it starts with newer apartments. Maybe a huge part of the adoption curve are home owners or those renting houses.
Most measurements are around the number of "new" vehicle purchases and the percentage of the overall market. Clearly there are an enormous number of ICE vehicles (including my badlands) that will be on the road for a long time. Ford sells new vehicles and they are commenting that they will keep producing specific ICE vehicle models AND shift significant portions of their offerings to EV.

My examples are around adoption of new vehicles and also how "some" businesses are looking to align with the opportunity.

 

[JTBros]

Unfortunately you are right. Ford will be a big player in the EV race. I meant they are losing in understanding their customer. I'm sure most people will buy their new EV off the lot in a few years and be perfectly happy, but right now there is a large group of Bronco reservation holders who reserved vehicles and got shit on by Ford. That says more to me than the quality or quantity of any vehicle they can produce in the future.

More than fair. I can’t say Ford hasn’t deeply tainted my desire to buy from them in the future with this mess.

 

[sshurts]

@sshurts My post was not referring to costs for the complexes but for the additional infrastructure required to support an increased load on the electrical utility. The NEC now has sections for EV charging but it wasn't so years ago. Load calcs did not consider EV charging at commercial or residential locations. Multi family dwelling load calculations are used to size things such as transformers, Service conductors, etc. I'm sure that most done in the past were not sized with the thought of having 200 + EV's charging overnight and adding additional load to the service conductors, transformers and disconnects. You can only add so many 30 amp circuits before things get overloaded if it was never part of the original calculation. That's the part of the puzzle that few people are talking about when pushing EV's. Carry that back to the substations providing the juice and the puzzle grows larger.
Another situation would be fleet vehicles and or personal work related company vehicles. I have a gas card right now so it's easy. I can recharge at a fueling station with an EV on a card and that's easy as well. What happens when I charge my company vehicle at home because I couldn't get to a roadside fueling station? Does my employer pay an itemized portion of my energy bill? Do they do that same thing for the other 80 employees? It can get tricky and it's all just talking points that need to be considered.

Ah, I see your point and the grid is a whole discuss in and of itself. Very relevant in this discussion and could certainly constrain adoption in areas. One aspect of charging that is helpful is the off peak loading. I would think that most of the sizing to based upon the peak consumption which is business hours. All the graphs show the huge drop (as is reflected by many utility bills) of charging in the night when everyone is sleeping. Of course, the future will impact this billing in time.

Think of all the "barn" work vehicles. Those that come back to the barn every day.
Heck, I've see where several police forces have switched to EV and their saving are huge (it pencils out).

No question around electric vehicles NOT being the answer to all situations. It doesn't have to be as the low hanging fruit is huge. And dare I mention the fact that statistically autos are idle 94% of the time. There are projection models that show Autonomous vehicles will disrupt even ownership... What if it costs less to NOT own a vehicle... ok, let's now blow every ones mind and distract from the initial thread.

 

[sshurts]

You’re asking a lot of the same talking points that I have.

As previously stated, I don’t like nor dislike EV technology…however I do live in rural CA, there are no charging stations in our area which means it would be up to me to provide a charging station at home and with current PGE rates which are 4x higher than the national average, and going higher even on solar customers which we are…who’s paying my additional (best guess) $500 monthly electric bill and/or even if I went down this road, how would I even expect to be able to charge an EV when PGE routinely shuts off power for 2-3 days at a time or longer. The Lightning is appealing since I could use it to power our home during times of extended power outages, but how long can it do that and how do you recharge once it’s batteries have been depleted I get the speed, torque, fun to drive aspect of EV’s but there are still way too many unanswered questions before I can see one being practical for my needs.

yep. not everyone will have the best (for them) options. And yes, it is a new technology and lessons will be learned. I will say that Tesla has more experience (data) than many and the number of miles they are racking up is feeding right back into the engineering teams.

And for what it is worth, Elon and many others, will sing the praise of "modern" nuclear. There are very few safety reasons, or waste management challenges, related to some of these. Congrats to the Wyoming and their reactor project. Next Gen Reactor

 

[JTBros]

While I don’t own an EV yet, I’m sure I will within 3 - 4 years. They are getting significantly better YoY, especially around range (500 miles is not far off), and charge times. The instant torque, handling and extra secure storage space (like what you see in Rivians and the new Lightning), are all fantastic features.

While I still want an ICE Bronco given what I want to use it for, adding an EV as a daily driver would be awesome so this direction from Ford makes a ton of sense.

Exactly how I view it. Definitely planning on getting a GR Corolla and maybe a Bronco depending on delivery. That combo would pretty much scratch any remaining itches I have for ICE aside from a Blackwing but those are big money.

Then have a mundane, spacious EV for the SO to daily while I WFH.

 

[chobit]

There are barely any EV in your State. Many more here in WA

https://electrek.co/2021/08/24/current-ev-registrations-in-the-us-how-does-your-state-stack-up/

Going from less than 3% of the market to the majority is going to take a LOT longer than any of these fantasy proposals I've seen talking heads promote.

Electrics get talked about constantly, but hardly anyone is actually buying them.

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