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da_jokker

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Jdc

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Ford, I hope this 2023 availability is an under promise with a possibility of a 2022 over deliver.
Also, with all the Broncos out there, can one of the aftermarket folks not come up with modular too in record time and meet some of the demand? Crisis makes makes great people and great companies. Moderna stepped up during Covid-19 and provided a vaccine in record time, can some company out there step up and respond to this shortage and make a name for themselves?!
The research behind the process of making the vaccine was 7 years in the making. That research was centered on being able to produce vaccines quickly. It was also funded by the U.S government which is why the government holds the patent on the process
 

KnoxGnater

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I feel like raising an issue about the "paper" here is a bit of a red herring. It's like saying a house shouldn't be built from wood framing timbers because would exposed to the elements eventually rots. That the paper honeycomb is coated resolves any issue of it degrading as it might if not coated. For those who wonder why aluminum (or some other material wasn't used), check the spot price and weight for the other material. Plus, the cost of moulding the aluminum into the required pattern and issues with damage or breakage during handling would not make it ideal for this kind of mass-production.
im not sure who’s raised an issue with the honeycomb, unless I missed a post. I pulled this off Webastos website so folks would understand the MIC top construction in more detail. I agree with you 100%.

The design is good. It provides rigid structure at reduced weight vs SMC and/or alloys. The execution of that design has issues, apparently for several reasons, which will be resolved eventually.
 

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GoTigersGoBronco

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Continental makes the ‘21 Tacoma/‘22 Tundra truck
Beds. They also make some body components for the Corvette. I’m sure they’ll do a great job.
 

firefox33

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I have a lot experience with Ford’s manufacturing environment as a supplier and the only type of tooling Ford typically owns is stamping dies. Processing machinery and CNC machinery tooling are typically not.
I was Involved with Ford projects for almost 30 years and have been in about 75% of their manufacturing facilities worldwide. I’ve seen and lived through a lot “hiccups “ but nothing like this one.
 

Dr.Detroit

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OK...so we know For-Basto is no longer a couple...at least for the MODs. But, do we know 'who' told 'who' to take a flying leap? Not at all clear to me.

My MIC guess is Ford's unreasonable requirements for weight & cost doomed that puppy from the get-go. And guess what...the MOD top has a new fabricator - but its brought to you by the very same engineering/design team that brought you the MIC
Just to be clear, you never see a supplier tell a OEM to go fly a kite without repercussions that last..Jim, sometimes I wonder what fantasy world you live in..?

Suppliers are everywhere, OEMs are not. This is not a design issue IMO, it is a manufacturing issue. When you skip processes to speed up production, that is an issue. All of the issues are manufacturing issues. Look a bit deeper buddy. This is not design, I have the complete set in my garage. I can see when production skipped steps...it's that obvious.
 

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Razorbak86

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I have a lot experience with Ford’s manufacturing environment as a supplier and the only type of tooling Ford typically owns is stamping dies. Processing machinery and CNC machinery tooling are typically not.
I was Involved with Ford projects for almost 30 years and have been in about 75% of their manufacturing facilities worldwide. I’ve seen and lived through a lot “hiccups “ but nothing like this one.
Thanks for your response. I appreciate your perspective, and I don't doubt your experience.

I can only tell you that I have been told by more than one knowledgeable source that Ford does indeed own both the intellectual property and the tooling. Hopefully, you can understand why I will not divulge my sources, but let me provide some additional context.

As you implied, this supply contract is more than a hiccup. Remember that Ford assumed operational control of the Webasto facility for several weeks, invested millions of dollars trying to address underlying issues, and ultimately pulled the contract for the modular hard tops from the supplier. Those are pretty extreme rights and remedies for a supply contract, which demonstrates how unusual this situation actually is, so the ownership of the tooling should make sense in this context.
 

Carolina Jim

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I’ve seen and lived through a lot “hiccups “ but nothing like this one
This is not design, I have the complete set in my garage. I can see when production skipped steps...it's that obvious.
Remember that Ford took over operational control of the Webasto facility for several weeks
Whether you want to put this in the "design failure" column, or the "Zero oversight" column, or the QC failure" column - IMO Ford comes out of this looking like shit.
 

Dr.Detroit

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Whether you want to put this in the "design failure" column, or the "Zero oversight" column, or the QC failure" column - IMO Ford comes out of this looking like shit.
No Doubt, but design vs manufacturer is a difference. Not to the end consumer , I understand, but it matters.
 

Carolina Jim

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No Doubt, but design vs manufacturer is a difference. Not to the end consumer , I understand, but it matters.
Seriously, I'm up here in the Peanut Gallery with zero idea of what's really going on. I'm less interested in playing 'pin the blame on the donkey'...and more interested in whether I should accept my Bronco (built 7/15) from the dealer when it arrives soon.

You seem to be close to the situation. Seems to me these MIC untreated, open edges will delaminate once water freezes in them over a year or 2. I live at 4,000 ft elevation in the mountains, so its a legitimate concern. My dealer (largest in the state) has heard zip from Ford, and outright refuses to apply any type of sealer product, should my Bronco arrive with that common defect.

What's your advice. Thanks in advance.
 

Rick Astley

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Whether you want to put this in the "design failure" column, or the "Zero oversight" column, or the QC failure" column - IMO Ford comes out of this looking like shit.
It's Ford's product, any issues along the way are always going to be Ford's rep on the line no matter the issue.

Not sure if Webasto had been squeezed too hard by the OEM's prior to 2020 and that was a contributing factor, but 100% of the issues are on Ford.

2020 and 2021 have taught global JIT manufacturing a lot of things, it will take time for those lessons to be fully identified and resolved but for now and on this forum, it's Fords fault.

I just happen to understand it's things partially beyond their control and regardless of what was happening, Ford doesn't "owe" me squat, nor did they make me any personal promises. That was the same in 2019 when we bought our Ranger. So my burlap speedos aren't in a bunch over it. Cars will be built when they are built, people will finance them, life will move on.
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