Sponsored

rkj__

Well-Known Member
First Name
Ryan
Joined
Nov 5, 2019
Threads
1
Messages
434
Reaction score
851
Location
Ontario, Canada
Vehicle(s)
Sierra, Countryman, RZR
Your Bronco Model
Undecided
It starts out with decent GC, but then if you drop the crossmember and relocate the lower A-arm attachment points, as many lift kits do, the n you loose whatever ground clearance you gained except from additional tire height.
Yup, I had one of these lifts in the past on a midsize pickup. The truck had great approach, breakover, and departure angles, but that skid plate below the front differential took a serious beating.
Sponsored

 

BigMeatsBronco

First Edition
Well-Known Member
First Name
Allan
Joined
Nov 25, 2021
Threads
38
Messages
2,322
Reaction score
6,538
Location
97301
Vehicle(s)
2021 FE 2 door
Your Bronco Model
First Edition
Clubs
 
Its obviously got a handful of awesome benefits over just the CV angle, but I think that is one of the most useful things about portals. First and foremost its about ground clearance, but the way you get clearance with portals is just plain better. As for a diff drop, there is a frame crossmember just behind and below the axle, I think it would have been much wiser for the engineers responsible to design that member to go over the axle. Diff drops are going to be really difficult IMO, unless you go so far down that you might as well be building all new hardpoints and frame members anyway. I am a long way out from doing anything crazy to my bronco, but when I get there I'll be considering re-routing that crossmember.

But like I said before, anyone seriously considering this upgrade should be looking at a rear axle upgrade anyway.
On a normal IFS lift, you have more "compression travel" than an IFS portal lift due to a pre-drooped CV starting angle. I'm sure it's actually better to start with them straight at rest if possible, but portals CV angle is going to reduce compression suspension travel, if anything.
(of course it increases droop overall, which is cool)

Same amount of torque going to pinion and CV shafts as there was before,
This is incorrect...the wheel travel upwards can increase before tire rubs with portals.
The limiting factors are the CVs, which CAN handle more compression angle. Then obviously the shocks are the other major limitation for capturing the additional 4”+ inches of drop at the spindle (provided by portals) and utilizing it and the additional fender clearance and turing that into upward wheel travel. Again, upper shock mounts and different length shocks will easily make use of the new available tire travel area.

Also the gearing at the wheel increases the strength of everything before it...duh.

Gearing is a torque multiplier
 
Last edited:

BigMeatsBronco

First Edition
Well-Known Member
First Name
Allan
Joined
Nov 25, 2021
Threads
38
Messages
2,322
Reaction score
6,538
Location
97301
Vehicle(s)
2021 FE 2 door
Your Bronco Model
First Edition
Clubs
 
I'm still arguing for proper upgrades front and rear. But i'll point something out, a normal IFS lift generally doesn't increase your wheel travel, you are right that it can increase compression/jounce travel (though often doesnt because of crappy shocks), but you have usually lost almost all of your rebound travel. That's why I hate typical cheap lifts or "fancy" air systems that just jack up the IFS (looking at you Land Rover, and Rivian till proven otherwise). The performance sucks, there's no flex, then everyone points and laughs and says look IFS sucks!

A typical stock rig reaches max CV angles at rebound only, not jounce, meaning if there was no bodywork in the way, the wheel travel could be increased by perhaps 50% on stock components (other than coilovers) just by letting the wheels go further up. A diff drop or a portal set up can raise the CV angle at ride height such that you can achieve more total wheel travel because you can potentially reach your CV limit at both jounce and rebound, not just rebound.

As for gearing, uggg I want a small diesel so bad, but I really cant complain much about the 2.3 performance off-road. Better gearing is utterly unnecessary just to get things moving, even with major tire upgrades and off the boost. The gearing is all about control, in that sense the more options I have at a very low speed the better, I cringe when people spend all their time on the clutch.
This is absolutely correct and well said.
 

OX1

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jim
Joined
May 25, 2017
Threads
45
Messages
1,311
Reaction score
1,299
Location
jackson nj
Vehicle(s)
59 Bird, 70, 74, 78, 79 Broncos, 84 LTD 331 w/Vortech, 86 Capri 5.0 turbo, 14 Stang GT, 17 Fusion Sport
Your Bronco Model
Undecided
This is incorrect...the wheel travel upwards can increase before tire rubs with portals.
The limiting factors are the CVs, which CAN handle more compression angle. Then obviously the shocks are the other major limitation for capturing the additional 4”+ inches of drop at the spindle (provided by portals) and utilizing it and the additional fender clearance and turing that into upward wheel travel. Again, upper shock mounts and different length shocks will easily make use of the new available tire travel area.

Also the gearing at the wheel increases the strength of everything before it...duh.

Gearing is a torque multiplier
5" portal vs 5" susp lift has no bearing on tire clearance, they are the same. By default though, CV's that start at a downward angle (normal IFS susp lift) can angle upwards more then those that start out level (like that shown on the IFS portal lift).

Nope, torque through the CV's shafts is the same, torque at the wheels is more. To fully realize benefits you are trying to describe, you have to reduce torque out of the engine, or reduce gear ratios in the trans or TC. You aren't doing this. You can compensate some by using less throttle, one higher gear, (or less TC gear if you want to go that crazy). If you floor it in first gear, torque through the CV shafts is the same.

Unimogs use a 3.54 diff gear and 2:1 portals for a reason (in 404's anyway). It allows you to use "tall" gearing through the rest of the drivetrain, up to and including the diff ratio.
 

rkj__

Well-Known Member
First Name
Ryan
Joined
Nov 5, 2019
Threads
1
Messages
434
Reaction score
851
Location
Ontario, Canada
Vehicle(s)
Sierra, Countryman, RZR
Your Bronco Model
Undecided
Nope, torque through the CV's shafts is the same, torque at the wheels is more. To fully realize benefits you are trying to describe, you have to reduce torque out of the engine, or reduce gear ratios in the trans or TC. You aren't doing this. You can compensate some by using less throttle, one higher gear, (or less TC gear if you want to go that crazy). If you floor it in first gear, torque through the CV shafts is the same.
Said differently, when the torque at the wheel is the same, there is less load carried by the components before the portal.
 

Sponsored

OX1

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jim
Joined
May 25, 2017
Threads
45
Messages
1,311
Reaction score
1,299
Location
jackson nj
Vehicle(s)
59 Bird, 70, 74, 78, 79 Broncos, 84 LTD 331 w/Vortech, 86 Capri 5.0 turbo, 14 Stang GT, 17 Fusion Sport
Your Bronco Model
Undecided
Said differently, when the torque at the wheel is the same, there is less load carried by the components before the portal.
You mean if you don't use all the available torque in the drivetrain due to running tires/wheels that now weigh 600 lbs a set? (god bless ya if you have any restraint, LOL!!) I guess it only really matters if you can reuse the stock CV's, if you have to upgrade them, not really protecting anything of substance (vs a std gear swap).

Anyway, too rich for me. I probably have 20 grand into my entire rig. I'll just keep beating it I guess until built up, newer bronco's are more common (and hopefully beat up and cheaper).
 

BigMeatsBronco

First Edition
Well-Known Member
First Name
Allan
Joined
Nov 25, 2021
Threads
38
Messages
2,322
Reaction score
6,538
Location
97301
Vehicle(s)
2021 FE 2 door
Your Bronco Model
First Edition
Clubs
 
5" portal vs 5" susp lift has no bearing on tire clearance, they are the same. By default though, CV's that start at a downward angle (normal IFS susp lift) can angle upwards more then those that start out level (like that shown on the IFS portal lift).

Nope, torque through the CV's shafts is the same, torque at the wheels is more. To fully realize benefits you are trying to describe, you have to reduce torque out of the engine, or reduce gear ratios in the trans or TC. You aren't doing this. You can compensate some by using less throttle, one higher gear, (or less TC gear if you want to go that crazy). If you floor it in first gear, torque through the CV shafts is the same.

Unimogs use a 3.54 diff gear and 2:1 portals for a reason (in 404's anyway). It allows you to use "tall" gearing through the rest of the drivetrain, up to and including the diff ratio.
Wow everyone knows any reduction in gearing at the wheel increases the strength of every component before it like ring and Pinions, u joints axles, ect....it does this by reducing torque . Look at hummer H1 29 spline axles or axletec axles for Gods sake...you don't even understand your own MOG if you think those tiny axles aren't being helped out by the gear reduction the portals provide.

Same goes for your CV and tire clearance ideas. I guess you need a picture to understand.
It's simple, at a increased ride height, I want the CVs to be LEVEL at ride height. Portals allow this. SOoooo this means with portals, I have a much better chance of utilizing ALL of the CVs available upward and downward travel. And less chance of tire interference with out cutting fenders.
Other ways of lifting the Bronco IFS almost always cause more CV angle, not less. And if the CV is at near max angle at any new elevated ride height (from a normal lift) then drop travel is severely diminished.

Lastly, your tiny MOG axles are spinning at 2Xs the speed as your tire, this creates a torque advantage of 2:1 at the wheel. Therefore allows your axles and r&p to be smaller in size, and the taller ratio at the ring and pinion actually adds strength to the pinion teeth by allowing that gear to be bigger.
 
Last edited:

TeocaliMG

Badlands
Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Threads
18
Messages
847
Reaction score
2,770
Location
Plymouth Michigan
Website
www.brokeninnovation.com
Vehicle(s)
2021 Bronco Badlands non-sas 4 door manual
Your Bronco Model
Badlands
Clubs
 
Wow everyone knows any reduction in gearing at the wheel increases the strength of every component before it like ring and Pinions, u joints axles, ect....it does this by reducing torque . Look at hummer H1 29 spline axles or axletec axles for Gods sake...you don't even understand your own MOG if you think those tiny axles aren't being helped out by the gear reduction the portals provide.

Same goes for your CV and tire clearance ideas. I guess you need a picture to understand.
It's simple, at a increased ride height, I want the CVs to be LEVEL at ride height. Portals allow this. SOoooo this means with portals, I have a much better chance of utilizing ALL of the CVs available upward and downward travel. And less chance of tire interference with out cutting fenders.
Other ways of lifting the Bronco IFS almost always cause more CV angle, not less. And if the CV is at near max angle at any new elevated ride height (from a normal lift) then drop travel is severely diminished.

Lastly, your tiny MOG axles are spinning at 2Xs the speed as your tire, this creates a torque advantage of 2:1 at the wheel. Therefore allows your axles and r&p to be smaller in size, and the taller ratio at the ring and pinion actually adds strength to the pinion teeth by allowing that gear to be bigger.
In his defense, he is pointing out that as long as the powertrain ahead of said gears and axles is the same, the max torque they could experience remains the same. So he's right there, but only in niche cases I would say.

You are almost always traction limited, especially off-road, which means the max torque your powertrain can provide will be reduced before tire slip is experienced. That is where the vast majority of the safety comes from and I agree with you there, its no secret that portals help the longevity of everything upstream.
 
 


Top