Ford's Leadership and Financial Situation Effect On Bronco

Nickp

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Any modern BOF vehicle will get to 300k miles with relatively little fuss.

Try that with an EB or FSB.
 

paxfish

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We're talking about Productivity vs Wages.
With Productivity SHOULD come savings through efficiency.
With improved productivity should come more profit.
WIth more profit should come higher wages.

This last part is missing.

Which, regardless of how much longer the vehicle last, is the reason that people take 7 year loans.
Maybe those vehicles now last 15 years instead of 10, but now many people have 7 year loans instead of five.
So, they are still paying on a loan for 1/2 the life of the vehicle, but they are paying TWICE as much (wage to cost) as they would have a couple decades ago.

productivity-vs-wages-2012.png
Fine.

My point is that the value of the product we are buying is significantly higher. It lasts twice as long, is much safer and requires fewer of my weekend hours to maintain.
 

BroncoJeremie

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Fine.

My point is that the value of the product we are buying is significantly higher. It lasts twice as long, is much safer and requires fewer of my weekend hours to maintain.
Also many many more features
 

BHShaman

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Fine.

My point is that the value of the product we are buying is significantly higher. It lasts twice as long, is much safer and requires fewer of my weekend hours to maintain.
Point taken.

But the counter point is that the vehicle does not actually cost any more to build, adjusted for inflation, due to productivity gains.
So despite the more options and the longer life it should not cost 2x more, adjusted for inflation, than it did back when cars were crappy.
 

OX1

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Any modern BOF vehicle will get to 300k miles with relatively little fuss.

Try that with an EB or FSB.
Unless you get one with a weird electrical glitch, which is not that uncommon with the amount of
stuff jammed in these days.
 

Nickp

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Unless you get one with a weird electrical glitch, which is not that uncommon with the amount of
stuff jammed in these days.
...what? I’ve never heard of an “electrical glitch” making a truck not worth fixing at 200k miles
 

OX1

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...what? I’ve never heard of an “electrical glitch” making a truck not worth fixing at 200k miles
You said "little fuss"
 

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We're talking about Productivity vs Wages.
With Productivity SHOULD come savings through efficiency.
With improved productivity should come more profit.
WIth more profit should come higher wages.

This last part is missing.

Which, regardless of how much longer the vehicle last, is the reason that people take 7 year loans.
Maybe those vehicles now last 15 years instead of 10, but now many people have 7 year loans instead of five.
So, they are still paying on a loan for 1/2 the life of the vehicle, but they are paying TWICE as much (wage to cost) as they would have a couple decades ago.

productivity-vs-wages-2012.png
I want to be upset, but I know there must be something wrong... Its not like all of a sudden the American workforce decided to stop understanding time value or compensation... This is always a tricky subject, not only because of inflation, but because the subjective value and power of the dollar changes and improves overtime independently from inflation. Simple example, the richest man in the world in 1900 couldn't buy a Microwave. That is an extreme case but quality of living has never been easy to quantify, certainly not in real dollars. All of these dynamics effect wages and time value of labor. Not to mention how industrialization and automation improve productivity per hour fairly independently from the individual worker, yet their gains may be included in this chart. I'm no econ expert but I always have to take stuff like this with a grain of salt. I guess the best any of us can do is look at what a dollar can give us, what an hour can do for us and analyze if our current Job is fair. If not, then perhaps you should choose a different line of work, or reevaluate how cash and time value are balanced in your mind (often easier said then done)

Edit: I should also emphasize that in most cases inflation alone just about levels out base costs. You can argue that the average price is higher still, because the delta from base to peak trim in cost has never been higher. This is not objectively bad, but represents how consumers have changed their preferences over time. When simply comparing base costs there is absolutely no question that you are getting a better product for your equivalent dollar value than ever before (Though the opportunity cost of those same dollars has never been higher since you can purchase a wider range of premium products). Additionally it is hard to objectively quantify how good people are at handling money (with regard to increasing debt), and most of us would agree that people have never been worse. Perhaps this is cultural, or perhaps it is simply because there is more and more opportunity to buy and spend than ever before. Probably a bit of both.
 
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2020 XL base std cab F250 4X4 ..... 38,090
........................ Crew............... 41,690
XLT ...base CC 4X4 ............ 47370


I suppose you can argue the comfort angle.....if you can put up with the "DEATH WOBBLE" that FoMoCo is currently NOT warrantying.

why I'll never buy a SFA, I do a lot of highway driving heading to the NJ shore to surf fish, don't need that nonsense :eek:

you guys who crawl rocks god bless you and your obsession.....not me :whew:
 

Carolina Jim

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quality of living has never been easy to quantify
Good observation. Most things are tough to compare across generations. A loaf of bread is pretty consistent - though its produced & packaged very differently. But consider things like 'healthcare' or 'housing' or 'entertainment'. Today middle-class Americans enjoy a lifestyle unimaginable in the mid 20th century.
 

TeocaliMG

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why I'll never buy a SFA, I do a lot of highway driving heading to the NJ shore to surf fish, don't need that nonsense :eek:

you guys who crawl rocks god bless you and your obsession.....not me :whew:

There is a lot of work going into this right now. I think a lot of people hoped they could resolve it with the new platform, at least somewhat, but its still an issue. Funny thing is both us and Ram REQUIRE a steering damper and this still happens. The GM has a parallel linkage very much like our 2wd set up, but no damper is required. Granted this is much less of a problem on our 2wd, if at all, but the damper is still required. As an engineer its a fun but frustrating problem, hopefully someday we can fully mitigate it
 

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I want to be upset, but I know there must be something wrong... Its not like all of a sudden the American workforce decided to stop understanding time value or compensation... This is always a tricky subject, not only because of inflation, but because the subjective value and power of the dollar changes and improves overtime independently from inflation. Simple example, the richest man in the world in 1900 couldn't buy a Microwave. That is an extreme case but quality of living has never been easy to quantify, certainly not in real dollars. All of these dynamics effect wages and time value of labor. Not to mention how industrialization and automation improve productivity per hour fairly independently from the individual worker, yet their gains may be included in this chart. I'm no econ expert but I always have to take stuff like this with a grain of salt. I guess the best any of us can do is look at what a dollar can give us, what an hour can do for us and analyze if our current Job is fair. If not, then perhaps you should choose a different line of work, or reevaluate how cash and time value are balanced in your mind (often easier said then done)
Yes the issue is not always cut and dry. I visited the Chicago History Museum last weekend, and they had various old mechanical items on display, including an old Craftsman band saw. According to the sign under the display, that bandsaw would cost around $600 in today's dollars. Yet I can go to Harbour Freight or similar company, and probably get a bandsaw for under $100.

We can debate quality differences, but regardless I can probably get into a bandsaw today for a lot less money than in the past, even if wage stagnation and other negative factors are in play.

On the flip side, is my "win" at getting a lower cost bandsaw, coming at the cost of harsh labor practices or pollution in some other country? And that old Crafstman band saw likely employed persons making it here in the USA. There can be other "costs". So there are various angles to examine.
 

indio22

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Fine.

My point is that the value of the product we are buying is significantly higher. It lasts twice as long, is much safer and requires fewer of my weekend hours to maintain.
"Value" can be a loaded word. Also as mentioned earlier in this thread, I recently bought a new car that meets modern safety requirements and maintenance schedules, and yet the price aligned closely to inflation. It didn't cost 10+ grand more than it's earlier counterpart. So the notion we are paying more for safety and maintenance is questionable.
 

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why I'll never buy a SFA, I do a lot of highway driving heading to the NJ shore to surf fish, don't need that nonsense :eek:

you guys who crawl rocks god bless you and your obsession.....not me :whew:
about 150k miles in a stock 250 that is meticulously maintained, and 75k in a lifted 250 that I treat like crap, never seen this issue, and that is on some horrible washboard roads at speed.

Just like with the jeep, this is likely a loose bolt on the panhard bar/linkage. there may be some poor Ford QA involved here, but it is also likely that he installed a leveling kit (and a cheap one at that), and didn't get everything tightened down properly.
Same shit with death wobble on Harley's. most of the time it comes down to poor attention paid to the triple tree head bearings and/or poor maintance. bald tires, or some bullshit raked triple tree that messes up the trail too bad.
 








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