Front axle engagement — integrated wheel ends (IWE)?

[Incognito]

I did this on my old Suzuki Tracker.
The auto locking hubs were trash.

Lost 1 MPG, and the CV joints wore out much faster.

Unless people start breaking these often, I'll keep the factory system until the warranty expires.

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[dgorsett]

I've had good luck with IWE, but I understand how it could be troublesome. I've also had no problem with no hubs and manual hubs. The only thing I've had trouble with is the old 80's-90's auto locking hubs but they could be swapped for manuals.

EDIT: BTW are we sure Bronco uses IWE, it seems it would not be very compatible with the Adv 4x4?

 

[Mattwings]

Ford is trying to get maybe 1 more MPG out of it. It's all about EPA numbers anymore. A manufacturer makes X number of these, X number of this, etc and the numbers are somehow averaged and the better the manufacturer's EPA number is the better off they are. So 1 MPG doesn't mean anything to most consumers, it can make worlds of difference to these calculations.

Manual hubs would be much more reliable but people will complain. "What do you mean I have to get outside and get a tiny amount of dirt/snow on my fingers and nice shoes to make my 4x4 work???"

Edit: I have no idea how Dodge gets past the numbers...

It’s interesting, because every Dodge V8 I have experienced (starting with my 77 318 in a D150) was so horrible on gas, I swear there was just a fuel pump that ran at a constant pace emptying my tank. It wasn’t any better with my wife's 5.7 in her 3/4 ton 4x4.

 

[Mattwings]

I've had good luck with IWE, but I understand how it could be troublesome. I've also had no problem with no hubs and manual hubs. The only thing I've had trouble with is the old 80's-90's auto locking hubs but they could be swapped for manuals.

EDIT: BTW are we sure Bronco uses IWE, it seems it would not be very compatible with the Adv 4x4?

I assume so, just locks them when in “auto” like the Raptor (same transfer case from my understanding).

 

[Raptor911]

Dodge/FCA buys federal greenhouse gas credits from Tesla. This is how they can continue to HELL CAT every product.

https://techcrunch.com/2019/06/03/why-gm-and-fiat-chrysler-are-buying-teslas-regulatory-credits/

Edit: I have no idea how Dodge gets past the numbers...

 

[dgorsett]

I assume so, just locks them when in “auto” like the Raptor (same transfer case from my understanding).

So if I understand correctly: When 4A is selected the IWE locks the wheels in, then the transfer case "clutch" locks/unlocks as appropriate?

 

[Mattwings]

So if I understand correctly: When 4A is selected the IWE locks the wheels in, then the transfer case "clutch" locks/unlocks as appropriate?

That’s my assumption. I have not seen anything about IWE being changed in the Raptor and it has used that transfer case since 2017 I think?

 

[grimmjeeper]

Jeep (and Dodge?) use a CAD (Center Axle Disconnect) system, at least on the solid front axle Jeeps. It's a 2 piece axle shaft on the passenger (long) side. The axle tube has a hole and an assembly attached to engage a shift collar. Back in the 80's it was a vacuum shifter. I think the new JL (2019+ wrangler) uses an electrical shifter.

The outer axle shafts bolt directly to the unit bearing and they always turn when the vehicle is moving. But with the disconnected inner axle shaft, the driver side just spins the spider gears. The front driveshaft does not turn. When you engage 4wd, the CAD shift collar connects the passenger side shafts together and the transfer case engages the front output.

Unfortunately, stuff like this (or the IWE) is needed to help meet CAFE requirements. Every little bit makes a difference.


My suspicion (just a wild ass guess) is that the automatically engaging all wheel drive system may not use the IWE because of the possibility of engaging/disengaging many times while driving. I know that the old Jeep Cherokee had an AWD transfer case as an option (NP242) and vehicles equipped with that case did not have the CAD system on their front axle.

 

[dgorsett]

Jeep (and Dodge?) use a CAD (Center Axle Disconnect) system, at least on the solid front axle Jeeps. It's a 2 piece axle shaft on the passenger (long) side. The axle tube has a hole and an assembly attached to engage a shift collar. Back in the 80's it was a vacuum shifter. I think the new JL (2019+ wrangler) uses an electrical shifter.

The outer axle shafts bolt directly to the unit bearing and they always turn when the vehicle is moving. But with the disconnected inner axle shaft, the driver side just spins the spider gears. The front driveshaft does not turn. When you engage 4wd, the CAD shift collar connects the passenger side shafts together and the transfer case engages the front output.

Unfortunately, stuff like this (or the IWE) is needed to help meet CAFE requirements. Every little bit makes a difference.


My suspicion (just a wild ass guess) is that the automatically engaging all wheel drive system may not use the IWE because of the possibility of engaging/disengaging many times while driving. I know that the old Jeep Cherokee had an AWD transfer case as an option (NP242) and vehicles equipped with that case did not have the CAD system on their front axle.

Do newer Wranglers have CAD? My 2005 has no disconnect of any kind.

 

[grimmjeeper]

Do newer Wranglers have CAD? My 2005 has no disconnect of any kind.

Jeep ran CAD in the 80s and dropped it around 1990. It came back in 2019 when the new generation JL was introduced. The TJ (96-06) and JK (07-18) never had it.

 

[nic]

So I came here because I saw something on BroncoNation that showed which trims and options had “front axel disconnect” this sounds very much like IWE. It seems that the trims/packages that include the advanced 4wd don’t have the “front axel disconnect”.

Does this seem to hint that the automatic 4wd has permanently locked hubs?

 

[broncobase1]

The alternative used by other manufacturers is permanently locked front hubs, with the front axle engage/disengaged at the transfer case. Yes, this introduces some small parasitic friction losses since the front differential is always being backfed by the front wheels.

Ford's solution: pneumatic front hub engagement AND front axle engagement/disengagement at the transfer case. Ford introduced this extra mode of failure in the pursuit of fractional MPG gains, for which every manufacturer is willing to compromise reliability to some extent.

The rotating axle and diff takes more power than you might think.

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