Sponsored

mpeugeot

Outer Banks
Well-Known Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
May 14, 2021
Threads
18
Messages
7,581
Reaction score
14,231
Location
Texas
Vehicle(s)
97 Ferrari F355, 11 Ford F-150, 21 OBX 2D
Your Bronco Model
Outer Banks
It occurs to me that this video (and the earlier one where we swapped in the M220 rear) are good enough arguments for opting for Sasquatch in the beginning rather than thinking "oh, I'll just save the money now and slap 'em in there down the road some time" LOL. For me, and the research we wanted to do when we first bought The Cheapest Bronco You Can Buy™, I'm still glad we did it the way we did. And I do think we proved that you don't "need" lockers for most of the off-roading that most folks will ever do (see our videos).

But if you know that you will eventually need lockers and bigger tires, just ordering it with Sasquatch from the factory is WAY easier, and cheaper, in the long run. I did this upgrade with every money-saving trick in the book, including waiting for used parts to pop up and buying them for a fraction, taking advantage of industry connections to get parts at very low prices (or free in some cases), and using a buddy for the only part of the labor I wasn't comfortable tackling myself (setting up gears). In hard costs I did save some money over the Sasquatch price, but anybody without the patience and connections I had will spend more just on parts, not even including labor, compared to Sasquatch. Yes, I did most of the work myself but if I paid myself the hourly rate I make for my regular job (not to mention the premium I would charge for using my "free time"), it would have been even more than what a shop would charge to do the work.

That said, it's a fun project if you want to tackle it. But if you don't enjoy shop work or the satisfaction of knowing your rig is "built not bought", then I don't really recommend tackling a job like this yourself. For me, the reason I work on stuff myself is because, despite the frustration things like this bring, and the fact that I'd rather spend my weekends out on the trail than in my shop banging my knuckles, I get great satisfaction from the knowledge that a job like this brings. Knowing how something comes apart and goes back together can bring you incredible peace of mind when you're out on the trail doing things that have the potential to break something. It takes the mystery out of that feeling of "what would I do if something goes wrong?" There's a lot of security in knowing you can actually fix something that breaks, if needed. And as difficult as some of that work looks in our videos, let me tell you, it's a LOT easier doing it in the shop, with full tools, a 2-post lift, air and electric power, and a fridge full of beer...than doing something for the first time out on the trail when something breaks.
I just need to move my lift indoors vs outdoors, in air conditioned comfort with a beer handy, this would not be too bad.

I have been putting off my swap for a while now.
Sponsored

 
OP
OP
Dusty

Dusty

Base
Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 29, 2016
Threads
30
Messages
951
Reaction score
4,810
Location
Mentone, CA
Vehicle(s)
70, 71 & '21 Broncos
Your Bronco Model
Base
Clubs
 
My gut says 5.13/35s would be perfect with the 7MT and I'd really like to learn what it's like before spending the money.
My gut (and the Grim Jeeper gear calculator) told me different :)

5.13's with 35's comes very close to the final drive ratio the 7MT Broncos had stock (with 30" tires and 4.46 gears). I remember from those days that it was geared a little too low for normal on-road driving. Very torquey, almost had to use 2nd for initial take-off. When I put my 35's on (pre-gear change) yes it was then a bit under-geared (geared slightly too high for highway but still did OK off-road in low range). I never drove it on 35's with the 5.13's so I can't give a seat of the pants comparison, but the numbers in the calculator are close.

I took a gamble with the 5.13's for 37's. Most folks said they thought I should go 5.29 or 5.38. But after driving it like that for about a month and a half I think it's just right with 5.13's and 37's. Acts perfectly on-road, has usable highway gears in 5th and 6th, is low enough for just about anything off-road. In Crawl gear it is still VERY low. If it can get the traction, it can drag itself up anything with very little throttle. There's nothing we've done so far that the tiny bit of extra crawl ratio the deeper gears would have given, would have made any difference.

So overall I think this gear and tire size combo is just right. With 35's it would have been back to being slightly too-low geared, IMO. But hey, if you like yours to drive like a Massey-Furgeson, have at it :)
 
Last edited:

SierraBronco

Wildtrak
Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2024
Threads
4
Messages
326
Reaction score
675
Location
USA
Vehicle(s)
2022 Bronco
Your Bronco Model
Wildtrak
I just appreciate the poster in the background at 20:35 😉

This is the first install video I’ve seen that talks about those bolts on the top. Ordering a 22mm crowsfoot now.

Consider the like button smashed
 
OP
OP
Dusty

Dusty

Base
Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 29, 2016
Threads
30
Messages
951
Reaction score
4,810
Location
Mentone, CA
Vehicle(s)
70, 71 & '21 Broncos
Your Bronco Model
Base
Clubs
 
I just appreciate the poster in the background at 20:35 😉
I mean, I'm not gay. I'm a man with a shop, so there's going to be girly posters LOL.
This is the first install video I’ve seen that talks about those bolts on the top. Ordering a 22mm crowsfoot now.

Consider the like button smashed
Disclaimer, I didn't actually use a Crowfoot there as you saw, only opined that it might have worked better if I had one. Still not positive that it would have been any more helpful by the time you put the ratchet on the Crowfoot, is there even room to get much of a turn before having to reset the wrench, etc.

Thanks for the Like! As the yootoobers say, please subscribe too :)
 

SierraBronco

Wildtrak
Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2024
Threads
4
Messages
326
Reaction score
675
Location
USA
Vehicle(s)
2022 Bronco
Your Bronco Model
Wildtrak
I mean, I'm not gay. I'm a man with a shop, so there's going to be girly posters LOL.

Disclaimer, I didn't actually use a Crowfoot there as you saw, only opined that it might have worked better if I had one. Still not positive that it would have been any more helpful by the time you put the ratchet on the Crowfoot, is there even room to get much of a turn before having to reset the wrench, etc.

Thanks for the Like! As the yootoobers say, please subscribe too :)
I’d rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it, as the old adage goes. We’re about six weeks out for swapping all our stuff so this was helpful. We’ll be doing the steering rack at the same time so it’s good to know the planned order of disassembly was correct.
 

Sponsored

dgorsett

Big Bend
Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2019
Threads
24
Messages
3,840
Reaction score
7,711
Location
colorado
Vehicle(s)
F250, Mustang, Explorer
Your Bronco Model
Big Bend
Clubs
 
It occurs to me that this video (and the earlier one where we swapped in the M220 rear) are good enough arguments for opting for Sasquatch in the beginning rather than thinking "oh, I'll just save the money now and slap 'em in there down the road some time" LOL. For me, and the research we wanted to do when we first bought The Cheapest Bronco You Can Buy™, I'm still glad we did it the way we did. And I do think we proved that you don't "need" lockers for most of the off-roading that most folks will ever do (see our videos).

But if you know that you will eventually need lockers and bigger tires, just ordering it with Sasquatch from the factory is WAY easier, and cheaper, in the long run. I did this upgrade with every money-saving trick in the book, including waiting for used parts to pop up and buying them for a fraction, taking advantage of industry connections to get parts at very low prices (or free in some cases), and using a buddy for the only part of the labor I wasn't comfortable tackling myself (setting up gears). In hard costs I did save some money over the Sasquatch price, but anybody without the patience and connections I had will spend more just on parts, not even including labor, compared to Sasquatch. Yes, I did most of the work myself but if I paid myself the hourly rate I make for my regular job (not to mention the premium I would charge for using my "free time"), it would have been even more than what a shop would charge to do the work.

That said, it's a fun project if you want to tackle it. But if you don't enjoy shop work or the satisfaction of knowing your rig is "built not bought", then I don't really recommend tackling a job like this yourself. For me, the reason I work on stuff myself is because, despite the frustration things like this bring, and the fact that I'd rather spend my weekends out on the trail than in my shop banging my knuckles, I get great satisfaction from the knowledge that a job like this brings. Knowing how something comes apart and goes back together can bring you incredible peace of mind when you're out on the trail doing things that have the potential to break something. It takes the mystery out of that feeling of "what would I do if something goes wrong?" There's a lot of security in knowing you can actually fix something that breaks, if needed. And as difficult as some of that work looks in our videos, let me tell you, it's a LOT easier doing it in the shop, with full tools, a 2-post lift, air and electric power, and a fridge full of beer...than doing something for the first time out on the trail when something breaks.
Well said. I came from a Rubicon and debated the Sasquatch/non for a long time (from July 20 to January 21 order time) Ultimately went non Sasquatch with a rear locker and am happy, but once in a while I turn around on a trail I might have tried with Sasquatch. You were (an still are) the hero of the non Sasquatch crowd, but now have graduated to the push it to the limit crew.

And nothing is like the knowledge and the satisfaction gained by a job you did yourself. My Dad was a mechanic and I have always done my own work, sometimes getting in over my head, but with perseverance (and now youtube) I've made it through. Knowing how things work and go together helps in a lot of way when out in the world.
 
OP
OP
Dusty

Dusty

Base
Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 29, 2016
Threads
30
Messages
951
Reaction score
4,810
Location
Mentone, CA
Vehicle(s)
70, 71 & '21 Broncos
Your Bronco Model
Base
Clubs
 
Ultimately went non Sasquatch with a rear locker and am happy
Had they offered a rear locker as a stand-alone option on the Base, I might have sprung for it. And perhaps left it that way LOL.
 
OP
OP
Dusty

Dusty

Base
Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 29, 2016
Threads
30
Messages
951
Reaction score
4,810
Location
Mentone, CA
Vehicle(s)
70, 71 & '21 Broncos
Your Bronco Model
Base
Clubs
 
I’d rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it, as the old adage goes. We’re about six weeks out for swapping all our stuff so this was helpful. We’ll be doing the steering rack at the same time so it’s good to know the planned order of disassembly was correct.
Yeah I have a HOSS3 rack sitting in a box in my shop, I'm not looking forward to diving back in for the swap LOL. I'm probably going to take it down to Quinn to turn it into a Stage 3 before I do though. Sort of waiting for folks to sort out the ProCal issues around it first.
 

SierraBronco

Wildtrak
Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2024
Threads
4
Messages
326
Reaction score
675
Location
USA
Vehicle(s)
2022 Bronco
Your Bronco Model
Wildtrak
Yeah I have a HOSS3 rack sitting in a box in my shop, I'm not looking forward to diving back in for the swap LOL. I'm probably going to take it down to Quinn to turn it into a Stage 3 before I do though. Sort of waiting for folks to sort out the ProCal issues around it first.
I’m under the impression that Quinn takes care of the programming and it is supposed to be plug and play. Is that inaccurate?
 

Tricky Mike

Badlands
Well-Known Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Jun 26, 2023
Threads
9
Messages
985
Reaction score
3,021
Location
USA
Vehicle(s)
21 Bronco
Your Bronco Model
Badlands
Clubs
 
My gut (and the Grim Jeeper gear calculator) told me different :)

5.13's with 35's comes very close to the final drive ratio the 7MT Broncos had stock (with 30" tires and 4.46 gears). I remember from those days that it was geared a little too low for normal on-road driving. Very torquey, almost had to use 2nd for initial take-off. When I put my 35's on (pre-gear change) yes it was then a bit under-geared (geared slightly too high for highway but still did OK off-road in low range). I never drove it on 35's with the 5.13's so I can't give a seat of the pants comparison, but the numbers in the calculator are close.

I took a gamble with the 5.13's for 37's. Most folks said they thought I should go 5.29 or 5.38. But after driving it like that for about a month and a half I think it's just right with 5.13's and 37's. Acts perfectly on-road, has usable highway gears in 5th and 6th, is low enough for just about anything off-road. In Crawl gear it is still VERY low. If it can get the traction, it can drag itself up anything with very little throttle. There's nothing we've done so far that the tiny bit of extra crawl ratio the deeper gears would have given, would have made any difference.

So overall I think this gear and tire size combo is just right. With 35's it would have been back to being slightly too-low geared, IMO. But hey, if you like yours to drive like a Massey-Furgeson, have at it :)
It's all in your preference I guess. I don't like 4.70/35s at all, 1st is too tall and requires clutch slip on the slightest hill start and 6th is unusable at any speed without piling on the boost. 5.13 should improve both.
 

Sponsored
OP
OP
Dusty

Dusty

Base
Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 29, 2016
Threads
30
Messages
951
Reaction score
4,810
Location
Mentone, CA
Vehicle(s)
70, 71 & '21 Broncos
Your Bronco Model
Base
Clubs
 
I’m under the impression that Quinn takes care of the programming and it is supposed to be plug and play. Is that inaccurate?
He does, but he's a friend of mine and he was more interested in doing a quick, "while I wait" turnaround on it for me if I already had ProCal and didn't need him to do the programming too. I'm sure he would do that for me too but I'm in no hurry so if the folks working on it in the other thread and dealing with Ford Perf customer support can get it figured out, I'd rather do it with the ProCal I already paid for than bother Quinn with that part of it.
 

87-Z28

Outer Banks
Well-Known Member
First Name
Andy
Joined
Sep 1, 2022
Threads
1
Messages
418
Reaction score
618
Location
Texas
Vehicle(s)
BMW
Your Bronco Model
Outer Banks
Clubs
 
I appreciate the video on the FDU swap and the attention to details. Thanks for the effort. I am eventually going to tackle this job on the floor with jack stands. nice to clearly see the pita I am in for. Definitely going to do the steering rack at the same time.

The guys on this thread probably already know this but others viewing may not.

HOSS 3.0 rack programming steps for those that are unaware that this can be done without ford performance tuner. Pioneered by @BigMeatsBronco

https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/thre...ford-performance-m-3200-wt.51284/post-1680448
 

kodiakisland

Black Diamond
Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2020
Threads
29
Messages
5,797
Reaction score
16,506
Location
Arkansas
Vehicle(s)
12 Tacoma, 18 Indian, 23 GV70
Your Bronco Model
Black Diamond
Clubs
 
My gut (and the Grim Jeeper gear calculator) told me different :)

5.13's with 35's comes very close to the final drive ratio the 7MT Broncos had stock (with 30" tires and 4.46 gears). I remember from those days that it was geared a little too low for normal on-road driving. Very torquey, almost had to use 2nd for initial take-off. When I put my 35's on (pre-gear change) yes it was then a bit under-geared (geared slightly too high for highway but still did OK off-road in low range). I never drove it on 35's with the 5.13's so I can't give a seat of the pants comparison, but the numbers in the calculator are close.

I took a gamble with the 5.13's for 37's. Most folks said they thought I should go 5.29 or 5.38. But after driving it like that for about a month and a half I think it's just right with 5.13's and 37's. Acts perfectly on-road, has usable highway gears in 5th and 6th, is low enough for just about anything off-road. In Crawl gear it is still VERY low. If it can get the traction, it can drag itself up anything with very little throttle. There's nothing we've done so far that the tiny bit of extra crawl ratio the deeper gears would have given, would have made any difference.

So overall I think this gear and tire size combo is just right. With 35's it would have been back to being slightly too-low geared, IMO. But hey, if you like yours to drive like a Massey-Furgeson, have at it :)

It really depends on personal preference, driving style, terrain, etc. Factory ratios were too high for my likes. For me, lower is better, especially when you have upper gears you don't even use. Many of us cut our teeth on rock crushers that you used first or second as your starting gear, depending on conditions.

After a re gear, few people ever wish they had gone higher. Many wish they had gone lower. For the time, money, and effort spent, I'd go with the 5.38s.
 
OP
OP
Dusty

Dusty

Base
Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 29, 2016
Threads
30
Messages
951
Reaction score
4,810
Location
Mentone, CA
Vehicle(s)
70, 71 & '21 Broncos
Your Bronco Model
Base
Clubs
 
It really depends on personal preference, driving style, terrain, etc. Factory ratios were too high for my likes. For me, lower is better, especially when you have upper gears you don't even use. Many of us cut our teeth on rock crushers that you used first or second as your starting gear, depending on conditions.

After a re gear, few people ever wish they had gone higher. Many wish they had gone lower. For the time, money, and effort spent, I'd go with the 5.38s.
If I ever go to 40's I'll probably wish I had done 5.38's. But with 37's there's no place I won't be able to go, that I would have been able to with 5.38's. And for what it's worth those of us with the 7-speed technically take off in 2nd gear already :). As it is now, I use all of 6th gear on the highway and sometimes even wish I had 7th. I feel like I'd be winding it out too much with 5.38's, on my commutes. This is still my daily driver first and foremost, as gay as that sounds for me to admit LOL.
 
OP
OP
Dusty

Dusty

Base
Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 29, 2016
Threads
30
Messages
951
Reaction score
4,810
Location
Mentone, CA
Vehicle(s)
70, 71 & '21 Broncos
Your Bronco Model
Base
Clubs
 
BTW have you seen the size of the pinion gear in these things, in person? They're already teeny-tiny. The one for my 5.13's already has me concerned, and of course the lower gear pinions are even smaller.
Sponsored

 
 


Top